Single Player bugs and crashes v35 plus (SVN) - After the 18th of August 2014

[Thunderbrd]

Thanks Toffer!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Your problems are caused by the property system itself, because unlike most other things properties aren't affected by the gamespeed. That leads to unbalanced values in slow gamespeeds simply because they have much more turns. The same would happen with e.g. gold if it would not be scaled with the gamespeed.

I'am not sure about the best way to solve this and since that isn't the only issue with the property system i would just replace the whole system with something simpler.

The main thing here is that there needs to be the ability to keep the property manipulators in balance and with the current crime mechanism not having that capacity until so far into the game, early crime goes further out of control on a longer game setting. So again, with the plans to resolve that being right around the corner in implementation, the issue will certainly clear itself up.

Replacing the property system would be backpedaling on years of refinement and development. It's unfortunate some folks don't like it but at this point if we were to recreate a different system then the new system would have to be an option. And this is in no small part due to such a high level of appreciation by some of the mod team and fans for the system as it stands. I for one love the property mechanism and would only seek to advance how it can be applied... and have plans in the works to do so.

IIRC, gold is not scaled to gamespeed either and is just as susceptible to the same kind of effect where imbalances are exacerbated by the slower gamespeeds.

 

[olduser]

The main thing here is that there needs to be the ability to keep the property manipulators in balance and with the current crime mechanism not having that capacity until so far into the game, early crime goes further out of control on a longer game setting. So again, with the plans to resolve that being right around the corner in implementation, the issue will certainly clear itself up.

Replacing the property system would be backpedaling on years of refinement and development. It's unfortunate some folks don't like it but at this point if we were to recreate a different system then the new system would have to be an option. And this is in no small part due to such a high level of appreciation by some of the mod team and fans for the system as it stands. I for one love the property mechanism and would only seek to advance how it can be applied... and have plans in the works to do so.

IIRC, gold is not scaled to gamespeed either and is just as susceptible to the same kind of effect where imbalances are exacerbated by the slower gamespeeds.

The Property System is just too much for a game, this isn't a real world simulation and there are simpler ways to implement such things.

Gold is like most other things scaled with the gamespeed and it has to be. Otherwise it would be completely out of balance like the properties are.

 

[strategyonly]

The Property System is just too much for a game, this isn't a real world simulation and there are simpler ways to implement such things.

Gold is like most other things scaled with the gamespeed and it has to be. Otherwise it would be completely out of balance like the properties are.

So your saying that ALL property items need to be thrown out, to make the game turn times better?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So your saying that ALL property items need to be thrown out, to make the game turn times better?

No. Flammability for example is not impacting game turns at all as it is not one that spreads.

Crime and Pollution are two that spread, plot to plot, and have a known impact on turn times. Known from the time they were introduced when it was decided that the impact on turn times was worth it.

 

[Arakhor]

Which is pretty much the main reason that I said it was silly to have two types of pollution property (rather than one generalised property). This isn't SimCity, after all.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The housing model suggests it is SimCity.

 

[Arakhor]

Compared to the properties in both game effects and turn slow-down, the housing auto-builds are as deep as your city graphics changing when you build an important building.

(I quite like the extra colour provided by the housing model, but still.)

 

[Pit2015]

@Pit: Take a look at the planning document here!

Some things cannot be done as quickfixes but rather take an entire version to solve properly.

Yeah, looks good Unit_Watcher + Unit_Enforcers.

 

[strategyonly]

No. Flammability for example is not impacting game turns at all as it is not one that spreads.

Crime and Pollution are two that spread, plot to plot, and have a known impact on turn times. Known from the time they were introduced when it was decided that the impact on turn times was worth it.

How hard would it be then to take OUT Pollution completely?? Or is that even feasible??

 

[Pit2015]

Making the mod smaller sucks, taking out anything sucks. All is working fine on all game speeds if you just give the AI civs the possibility to respond to these problems at all times. I would like to see also the old guild system back from new dawn (Early corporations).

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I would like to see also the old guild system back from new dawn (Early corporations).

There are big problems with it that need sorting out before it can be brought back. However there are no modders available to work on it so it stays out until there are.

 

[Harrier]

How hard would it be then to take OUT Pollution completely?? Or is that even feasible??

I would prefer pollution was kept in the game. It is something else to consider when deciding what to build.

I am not against air and water pollution, but if you are trying to speed up the game. Why not combine the air and water pollution into one. That should improve turn times.

Also why not remove the pollution tile spreading mechanism. Again less computation so should increase turn times.

I must admit that I ignore the tile spreading pollution feature. Mainly because I do not understand what it is doing. Same goes for crime/disease spreading to tiles.

I never place a medical or police type unit on a tile outside the city to reduce those values.

 

[Arakhor]

Why not combine the air and water pollution into one. That should improve turn times.

That's what I was suggesting. It shouldn't even be too difficult.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why don't we just get v36 released so further work can be done?!

And in response to alberts2 and Pit, C2c was Not made for Eternity gamespeed. Eternity was Not in the original set just the same as with the original map set sizes did not start with Gigantic. We have since come to the conclusion that Gigantic map will cause massive turn slow downs. And no longer recommend or support Giagantic maps sizes. But because the adherants/lovers of the Eternity game speed not willing to admit that 14K turns is so skewed in comparison to ALL other gamespeeds we have this big "who ha" over the self inflicted wounds playing on Eternity gives. If you deny the Eternity is Not flawed you have blinders on.

So why would it be so hard to reduce Eternity by 4000 turns and adapt Toffer's 10K Eternity to start? Why the resistance to a reduction that still leaves 10K turns....10 Thousand Turns ppl!

I can say with 100% conviction that there is not a single Eternity player that has Ever played all 14000 turn. Now I full expect eternity user's to "jump" all over me and this proposal. But I stand by it that this would go a long long way to mitigating some of these exaggerated problems that Eternity self inflicts upon it's users to the detriment of all other gamespeed users.

Current Game speeds in relation to # of turns: (I will be rounding as I do not have exact # before me)
Normal - 1000 turns
Epic - 2000 turns
Marathon - 4000 turns
Snail - 6000 turns
Eons - 9000 turns
Eternity - 14000 turns

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

I play beyond 14000 turns be sure. (Victory conditions is to destroy all other civs in my scenario) And its working with fair turn rates if you have a SSD HDD. Mod also works on eternity game speed, my huge map also works with fair turn rates and it is ok to wait a bit for a real cool game and real challenging map to turn. Just one rule, make the AI able to resond to all problems in all times and it will work. So the AI will also do better on other game speeds, if you dont like eternity go play a children game. Eternity speed works. If not i modmod and fix it.

Originally Posted by Pit2015 View Post
I would like to see also the old guild system back from new dawn (Early corporations).
There are big problems with it that need sorting out before it can be brought back. However there are no modders available to work on it so it stays out until there are.

You know what the problem was? Maybe i can look into it, problem to remove old corporations when the modern come into game?

 

[Arakhor]

You know, just using emoticons doesn't magically make a condescending post not condescending.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I play beyond 14000 turns be sure. (Victory conditions is to destroy all other civs in my scenario) And its working with fair turn rates if you have a SSD HDD. Mod also works on eternity game speed, my huge map also works with fair turn rates and it is ok to wait a bit for a real cool game and real challenging map to turn. Just one rule, make the AI able to resond to all problems in all times and it will work. So the AI will also do better on other game speeds, if you dont like eternity go play a children game. Eternity speed works. If not i modmod and fix it.


You know what the problem was? Maybe i can look into it, problem to remove old corporations when the modern come into game?

Right Pit. C2C was made for your Scenario. You Are the New Author and Maker of C2C. You have been here since day One. You Made Eternity gamespeed. You have personally overseen and directed all of the innovations that others like koshling, AIAndy, Eldrinfall, HydromancerX, and all the Current team and others have put into C2C. Therefore we Must bow before your Divine Benevolence O Great One.

We await your every command.

JosEPh

 

[Pit2015]

Dont feel condescending attacked. Its just true that real gamers like challenging games and C2C mod makes the game mutch more challenging. And its just true that my scenario is the hardest challenge you can get right now. And the fix works for eternity, so no more discussion needed, also early police units are planned now, will help the AI alot for slower game speeds and will fix also many problems for eternity game speed.

I know joseph that you played months without noticing that you miss 50% gold from the gold calculation bug. So say thanx that i report that to you, i say thanx for all the other work that you guys done to the C2C mod, best CIV4 mod worldwide. So back to the bugs... have fun.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Dont feel condescending attacked. Its just true that real gamers like challenging games and C2C mod makes the game mutch more challenging. And its just true that my scenario is the hardest challenge you can get right now. And the fix works for eternity, so no more discussion needed, also early police units are planned now, will help the AI alot for slower game speeds and will fix also many problems for eternity game speed.

I know joseph that you played months without noticing that you miss 50% gold from the gold calculation bug. So say thanx that i report that to you, i say thanx for all the other work that you guys done to the C2C mod, best mod worldwide. So back to the bugs, enouth to fix there...

Again Pit really. You are now Omniscient too? You can see me play? And you know what I was focusing on while I play? And I must now Test according to your standards. You truly Are the Great One!

I am totally and completely done with you and your Scenario.

JosEPh