Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[TrippedOnACloud]

There is a bug in the ship cargo space system that causes overload crashes with time. It exists at least in size matters - games, not sure if without it.

It happens when a unit attacks another land unit from a ship and prisoner of war is created on that ship. Consumed passenger space that this prisoner occupies never gets removed even when the prisoner is long gone from the ship. In time, when this repeats or when ship is upgraded to something with less cargo space, the result is ctd.

This is a old bug, applies to the latest 'crime patch'-version too.

I haven't encountered this bug in my games (all without Size Matters), so I think it's something specific to that option only. I've conducted entirely amphibious "slave raids" many times, using both conventional and HN units, without running into any crashes or cargo space errors.

I think I have run into a few oddities when the units doing the attacking from the ship have cargo capacity themselves (due to Bounty Hunter, for example), especially when the ships are already fully loaded, but without outright crashing, and I don't recall the specific details.

 

[Reiskae]

I've been seeing that somehow counts often get 'off' but I've never spotted what could be a source. I'm sure that's not the ONLY time it's caused but it's certainly one of the events I needed to know about to solve it. Sweet... thanks for that!

At some point the system needs a more full review as well. Now that it's on the debug queue it should get it's time in the sun finally.

No probs, without the permaban you would have gotten the info a lot sooner.

Oh yes it really needs, that's what i have been telling for who knows how long. I think it is so much more important to fix things now that it is to add even more content.

 

[Thunderbrd]

No probs, without the permaban you would have gotten the info a lot sooner.

Perhaps you could avoid that this time by having some sense of diplomacy and respect for others.

 

[Reiskae]

Perhaps you could avoid that this time by having some sense of diplomacy and respect for others.

That's what i do when not being continuously lied to.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Just try not to act like the only player who cares about the game this time, k? If you are going to be that aggressive about demanding fixes, then get off your ass and help. Those ON the team are doing all we can and cannot be driven like a herd of cows by the whims and complaints of one player giving feedback. So at least show some patience if you aren't getting the reactions you demand. You can be very valuable in just making your observations. But when things get demanding and condescending, we'd rather not have the positive you bring if you're going to bring that negativity as well. I also don't feel anyone outright lies about anything but sometimes we say what we think and what we think may be inaccurate or based on an older experience or reference because we're not taking the time at the moment to make sure everything we say is completely backed up by a current fact check. We often don't have enough time in our lives for all those fact checks to take place. Particularly when we're trying to get the mod developed rather than just ironed over to perfection yet.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Recently posted:

I have not seen it take more than one unit needed to take a fortification if the owner has no units in the fort. If they have a unit in there which you can't see or attack you can sometimes enter the fort without taking it.

There is a known bug of where fortifications or watch towers are destroyed and the owning culture is not reset to zero. I was going to introduce a "fortification ruin" which is a special Super Fort which had a negative culture. However it is just too complex to solve with such a simple method.

Putting it here to look into it when it comes up.

 

[Reiskae]

Just try not to act like the only player who cares about the game this time, k? If you are going to be that aggressive about demanding fixes, then get off your ass and help. Those ON the team are doing all we can and cannot be driven like a herd of cows by the whims and complaints of one player giving feedback. So at least show some patience if you aren't getting the reactions you demand. You can be very valuable in just making your observations. But when things get demanding and condescending, we'd rather not have the positive you bring if you're going to bring that negativity as well. I also don't feel anyone outright lies about anything but sometimes we say what we think and what we think may be inaccurate or based on an older experience or reference because we're not taking the time at the moment to make sure everything we say is completely backed up by a current fact check. We often don't have enough time in our lives for all those fact checks to take place. Particularly when we're trying to get the mod developed rather than just ironed over to perfection yet.

That's what i strive to do when the first reactions to my bug reports are not downplaying of it and aggravated defence.

I know that you are only erring humans too. That in mind, you must agree that in case that someone of you who replys to a bug report and doesn't know the issue, shouldn't downplay or try to circle that issue. Unfortunately, this has been a lingering and persevering nuisance in this place and since there is no time, writing erring and useless replies is the worst waste of it.

Luckily, i have seen other members encouraging the team into a bug slaughter fest and leaving the creation of new finally to the second priority. Still, a fine day it will be when this bug gets killed, AI needs much work too but that i think you know.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's what i strive to do when the first reactions to my bug reports are not downplaying of it and aggravated defence.

I know that you are only erring humans too. That in mind, you must agree that in case that someone of you who replys to a bug report and doesn't know the issue, shouldn't downplay or try to circle that issue. Unfortunately, this has been a lingering and persevering nuisance in this place and since there is no time, writing erring and useless replies is the worst waste of it.

Luckily, i have seen other members encouraging the team into a bug slaughter fest and leaving the creation of new finally to the second priority. Still, a fine day it will be when this bug gets killed, AI needs much work too but that i think you know.

Some bugs, like this one, cannot be squashed without catching the event that creates it (aka delivering a save where the next step reveals the bug) or just taking potentially days and days to go through a large area of code LOOKING for a logic flaw to jump out and make itself obvious. Imagining the numbers in the variables along the path they process on etc... I now plan to basically do just that but when you're up against that sort of thing you tend to put it on a back burner, hoping that you can catch the processing of the bug in the act instead.
In otherwords, if you can get a save that shows the crash or even just the bug as you explained it with the captives taking place as soon as you load it and take the first next step, that would help tremendously. Before you rush off to go try to generate that situation, understand that it will have to be done on assets where I can load the save. At the moment, my next commit will break all saves once more. (But it does squash some nasty bugs for sure! A big victory this one.)

That in mind, you must agree that in case that someone of you who replys to a bug report and doesn't know the issue, shouldn't downplay or try to circle that issue.

I can understand the perception here, but you also need to understand that many issues may be brought up where all anyone on the CURRENT team can do is give you their best guess. This helps each other too. Sure, we should probably say that it's our best guess when we are doing so but sometimes we don't realize when we are incorrect. Often, this gives us the chance to have another team member who knows better speak up and clarify. Sometimes the other member who would know better and would speak up isn't even part of the current mod effort anymore. In those cases, it's a bigger problem that we don't have someone who can work on that. For example, I KNOW there are bugs in the pathing mechanism. However, I also know that without Koshling working on them, they will probably never get fixed because the complexity of that system is mind blowing and he created it so has the familiarity to sort out what the problem is. I MIGHT someday very patiently map out how it works. I've begun to unlock some further layers of understanding on coding methods I've previously not had any grasp of that are in use frequently there so I might be able to pull it off someday now. But if you were to ask a question about bad behavior there, what you'd likely get is anyone on the team making the best guess they have based on how they've come to interpret and assume the issue is behaving.

In summary, stay calm and assertive and you can eventually get through to us points you may not be getting through on first post... and that's another issue. Sometimes the way you put things can lead to thinking you're talking about something you aren't. Not just YOU of course, I just mean that if I had a nickel for every time I thought someone was talking about one thing only to find it was about something entirely different I'd have a decent income here.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

For some reason some of the promotions eg GARRISON have the same unit combat as both valid and invalid for the promotion

<PromotionInfo>
<Type>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON2</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_GARRISON2</Description>
<Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
<PromotionPrereq>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON1</PromotionPrereq>
<TechPrereq>TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING</TechPrereq>
<PromotionLine>PROMOTIONLINE_GARRISON</PromotionLine>
<iLinePriority>2</iLinePriority>
<NotOnUnitCombatTypes>
<NotOnUnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</NotOnUnitCombatType>
</NotOnUnitCombatTypes>
<iCityDefense>25</iCityDefense>
<UnitCombats>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_GUN</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_HITECH</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CLONES</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
</UnitCombats>
<iCaptureResistanceModifierChange>5</iCaptureResistanceModifierChange>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/CityGarrison2.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions_Atlas.dds,3,2</Button>
</PromotionInfo>

It appears to be working ie it is not available for civilian units in game but it is showing as available in the pedia. I am going to remove the bit that says it is OK where there is a bit that says it is not OK. Does that sound right? TB?

Edit Strange, even though I have not on Traders for the promotion line and not on Traders but on Civilian for Garrison I and not on Civilian for Garrison II-IV the promotions are showing as available to the Trade Caravan???​

 

[Thunderbrd]

For some reason some of the promotions eg GARRISON have the same unit combat as both valid and invalid for the promotion

<PromotionInfo>
<Type>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON2</Type>
<Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_GARRISON2</Description>
<Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
<PromotionPrereq>PROMOTION_CITY_GARRISON1</PromotionPrereq>
<TechPrereq>TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING</TechPrereq>
<PromotionLine>PROMOTIONLINE_GARRISON</PromotionLine>
<iLinePriority>2</iLinePriority>
<NotOnUnitCombatTypes>
<NotOnUnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</NotOnUnitCombatType>
</NotOnUnitCombatTypes>
<iCityDefense>25</iCityDefense>
<UnitCombats>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_ARCHER</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_GUN</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_HITECH</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CLONES</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
<UnitCombat>
<UnitCombatType>UNITCOMBAT_CIVILIAN</UnitCombatType>
<bUnitCombat>1</bUnitCombat>
</UnitCombat>
</UnitCombats>
<iCaptureResistanceModifierChange>5</iCaptureResistanceModifierChange>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/CityGarrison2.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions_Atlas.dds,3,2</Button>
</PromotionInfo>

It appears to be working ie it is not available for civilian units in game but it is showing as available in the pedia. I am going to remove the bit that says it is OK where there is a bit that says it is not OK. Does that sound right? TB?

Edit Strange, even though I have not on Traders for the promotion line and not on Traders but on Civilian for Garrison I and not on Civilian for Garrison II-IV the promotions are showing as available to the Trade Caravan???​

It is certainly correct to remove the unitcombat prereq but to solve the second issue look at the promotionline access maybe. Ill think on this deeper when im home and not on my phone.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Edit Strange, even though I have not on Traders for the promotion line and not on Traders but on Civilian for Garrison I and not on Civilian for Garrison II-IV the promotions are showing as available to the Trade Caravan???

It might take starting a game to get these to show properly in the pedia. It's also possible that the logic for the display is flawed for more complex evaluations. Might have to take a look at that again.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is certainly correct to remove the unitcombat prereq but to solve the second issue look at the promotionline access maybe. Ill think on this deeper when im home and not on my phone.

I removed the duplicate and contradictory UnitCombat, leaving the NotOnUnitCombatType. I checked the rest as well. The first in the set, CityGarrison1, is the only one that should be available to Civilian units. All were still showing up for traders.

I then added a NotOn for Traders to the first. Still all were showing up as available to Traders.

I then added a NotTo Traders to the Promotion Line and still all were available to Traders.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I removed the duplicate and contradictory UnitCombat, leaving the NotOnUnitCombatType. I checked the rest as well. The first in the set, CityGarrison1, is the only one that should be available to Civilian units. All were still showing up for traders.

I then added a NotOn for Traders to the first. Still all were showing up as available to Traders.

I then added a NotTo Traders to the Promotion Line and still all were available to Traders.

Is the unit qualifying based on other unitcombats?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It only has Trade and Civilian both of which are excluded from City Garrison 2 up. As I said it is working fine in game as you can't get those higher promotions. It is only in the pedia that it is saying they can.

 

[strategyonly]

EoT loop, dont know if u want to look at this since its before ur break game changes . .

 

[TrippedOnACloud]

SVN9336, I ran into another case of an AI city suddenly getting a huge spike in production, though like last time, loading an autosave from the turn immediately prior failed to reproduce the bug on ending turn. I do have a save from the turn immediately afterwards that I can upload if desired, though I don't know how useful it would be. In this case, it happened very early, on turn 7 or 8 of a Snail game, before I managed to build any buildings or units, and after my starting Stone Thrower managed to get munched by wildlife.

Interestingly, the production spike allowed the AI city in question to complete multiple World Wonders in the same turn, which would seem to indicate that Multiple Production works differently for AI players than for human players. The city in question was also newly settled (0 culture, 1 population, 0 stored food), which may be relevant.

This appears to be such a rare bug that it's probably nearly impossible to track down without more info or a reproducible test case, and the fact that it happened in the middle of save-breaking updates just makes things worse, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.

 

[JosEPh_II]

What Difficulty level? All AI get 10 production points at start of game verses players 0.

Are you using Multiple Resources Option? Multiple Rivers? And what about map settings? Many have options for more resources. Using them too? These multiple Options can saturate a map.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

It only has Trade and Civilian both of which are excluded from City Garrison 2 up. As I said it is working fine in game as you can't get those higher promotions. It is only in the pedia that it is saying they can.

Ok... just a pedia issue on that access compilation tag. I get it. Thanks!

 

[Thunderbrd]

EoT loop, dont know if u want to look at this since its before ur break game changes . .

At least edit your post so that you can let me know which revision your game is running on so that later I can update to that revision to take a look at this. I do like to squash any cause for infinite loops because they usually lead me to find spots where I can speed things up too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

SVN9336, I ran into another case of an AI city suddenly getting a huge spike in production, though like last time, loading an autosave from the turn immediately prior failed to reproduce the bug on ending turn. I do have a save from the turn immediately afterwards that I can upload if desired, though I don't know how useful it would be. In this case, it happened very early, on turn 7 or 8 of a Snail game, before I managed to build any buildings or units, and after my starting Stone Thrower managed to get munched by wildlife.

Interestingly, the production spike allowed the AI city in question to complete multiple World Wonders in the same turn, which would seem to indicate that Multiple Production works differently for AI players than for human players. The city in question was also newly settled (0 culture, 1 population, 0 stored food), which may be relevant.

This appears to be such a rare bug that it's probably nearly impossible to track down without more info or a reproducible test case, and the fact that it happened in the middle of save-breaking updates just makes things worse, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.

Yeah, I think your diagnosis on how we can kill this thing is pretty accurate. It's extremely mysterious as it cannot be replicated. It also doesn't help that it's so infrequent. You'd almost have to design a log that keeps a tight ledger on every bit of production in every city and tags each transaction with the function that calls it and so on. Useless unless the problem happens and logs a ton of data with each game, most of which never encounter the issue. It's a frustrating matter.