Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Raledon]

Call me a stickler but people don't build huts anymore and the name and button art matter to maintain the feel of the era. It disrupts the suspension of disbelief as a player far too much to still be constructing buildings of bygone eras.

However, I agree with your premise from a game design perspective. We do have need for some lesser version buildings that can help in building the infrastructure of a city up so it can ramp up to speed without being stuck on huge buildings to generate its production forever. But these can't be the same buildings as those being replaced and they also need to be replaced when the more advanced forms are constructed after opening up due to larger populations (or admin center building prereq which is just a population and culture prereq template ultimately if you use it as a prereq.) As we examine building chains soon, let's consider how we can make some ramp-in buildings to support smaller communities and captured cities in growing up.

If I understand you correctly, since most people won't live in a hut in the modern world, it would break the suspension of disbelief for a city to build it.
An option which may solve it, which was given by DH (I think? I hope I'm not attributing this to the wrong person) which is to automatically upgrade. So once the hide factory comes into play, tanneries become obsolete and upgrade to hide factory. (This is due to the factory giving negligible advantage over tannery)
Meanwhile, cities without tannery get the option to build a "mini factory" that grants similar bonuses, but at a much higher upkeep(say, maintenance, unhealth and unhappiness). This "mini factory" will be very cheap, hammers wise, and the cost itself won't cause issues to the city in the short run. Later, when the city start to have issues such as unhealth and unhappiness, they will be the cheap upgrade option. They will also increase construction speed of the upgrade, so as to promote them as the stepping stone. (It happens with certain buildings in the modern era, that you can build the basic ones as long as you don't build Factory)
This does keep the issue of later buildings not being better than older ones, but at least it will resolve the issue of refusing to upgrade them and hitting unexpected break walls, as occured with the furniture.

EDIT: It seems gatherers can't build roads, after the basic ones (trails?) are obsolete. Not sure if this is a bug
EDIT2: Nile monitors act strangely. Gatherers know not to go into the same tile as them, and they attack workers. They appear as part of the passive animals, though. (aggressive animals option is ON)

 

[JosEPh_II]

No big reason really, I may prefer to have 25 steps instead of 20 steps in the range 0-100%, then again I might not prefer it... Sometimes I just mess around with stuff to see what works and what doesn't...

I can't guarantee that using an unfinished and experimental modmod will be safe for your saves, but I think that anyone who tries out WIP modmods understand that there is a risk involved.
The only important thing is that the number X gives an integer result from this calculation: 100 / X
So the number 3 would make it strange as it e.g. would hit the value 99%. It may be, I seem to recall, that I in one version of the modmod sat the number to 3 and that I in the next update changed it to 4.

Fair enough. I can see the advantage of a lower % being used. And as I thought about the 25 step vs 20, does give more choices. Just was not prepared for it in the save.

I actually would not be opposed to a 2% increment. More clicks yes but can be a finer tune when every % towards Research is important to the game situation.

 

[raxo2222]

Fair enough. I can see the advantage of a lower % being used. And as I thought about the 25 step vs 20, does give more choices. Just was not prepared for it in the save.

I actually would not be opposed to a 2% increment. More clicks yes but can be a finer tune when every % towards Research is important to the game situation.

Or we can go to 1%

First + button would set to 100%.
Second + -> 10% increments
Third + -> 1% increment.
Similarly with - buttons.
This way you would need up to 10 clicks and you would have most precision here.
That would need some programming though
Buttons, that set to 100%/0% weren't in vanilla.

 

[Thunderbrd]

An option which may solve it, which was given by DH (I think? I hope I'm not attributing this to the wrong person) which is to automatically upgrade. So once the hide factory comes into play, tanneries become obsolete and upgrade to hide factory. (This is due to the factory giving negligible advantage over tannery)
Meanwhile, cities without tannery get the option to build a "mini factory" that grants similar bonuses, but at a much higher upkeep(say, maintenance, unhealth and unhappiness). This "mini factory" will be very cheap, hammers wise, and the cost itself won't cause issues to the city in the short run. Later, when the city start to have issues such as unhealth and unhappiness, they will be the cheap upgrade option. They will also increase construction speed of the upgrade, so as to promote them as the stepping stone. (It happens with certain buildings in the modern era, that you can build the basic ones as long as you don't build Factory)
This does keep the issue of later buildings not being better than older ones, but at least it will resolve the issue of refusing to upgrade them and hitting unexpected break walls, as occured with the furniture.

This is basically exactly what I'm proposing to help us setup in the next cycle.

EDIT: It seems gatherers can't build roads, after the basic ones (trails?) are obsolete. Not sure if this is a bug

Probably intended. They aren't meant to be able to hang on to for their improved work speed forever.

EDIT2: Nile monitors act strangely. Gatherers know not to go into the same tile as them, and they attack workers. They appear as part of the passive animals, though. (aggressive animals option is ON)

Animals are under no obligation to conform to any expectations based on the team they are on. Passive animals just means they are part of a group of animals that tends to more often be food than predator. Once again, we should probably rename it to simply 'creatures'. I'm not sure where that naming needs to be changed.

A 2% increment? That could be interesting. Could also be frustrating if you had to make larger changes. But the finer tuning capacity is nice.

 

[Raledon]

Animals are under no obligation to conform to any expectations based on the team they are on. Passive animals just means they are part of a group of animals that tends to more often be food than predator. Once again, we should probably rename it to simply 'creatures'. I'm not sure where that naming needs to be changed.

There are 3 groups of creatures. I was under the impression it was to show their aggressiveness?

The city that worked the nomadic herd has just upgraded it to pasture. This seem like a bug, since I still haven't researched the canals technology to drain the swamp. On upgrade, the swamp was drained.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

EDIT: It seems gatherers can't build roads, after the basic ones (trails?) are obsolete. Not sure if this is a bug

Not a bug it is a deliberate part of the original design. (ie it is not a feature either)

The city that worked the nomadic herd has just upgraded it to pasture. This seem like a bug, since I still haven't researched the canals technology to drain the swamp. On upgrade, the swamp was drained.

This is a bug. I expect that the improvement upgrade function is not taking terrain feature settings into account. Vanilla BtS doesn't have such complex definitions.

 

[Septimius]

I'll look at your save. But I have 4 current games going and I don't remember salt gatherer having an upgrade problem. I'll still look of course.

Well it's not getting any upgrade with the invention of quarry, nor does it seem like it's getting one at any time in the future. Pretty sure it's a bug (or intended).

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about quarries on the "salt" resource, they work fine. It's the salt flat terrain that you can only construct the prehistoric salt gatherer on and never upgrade it.
Possibly some tech makes this possible during the classical or medieval period, but it's not clear from civipedia which that would be.

 

[Toffer90]

Or we can go to 1%

First + button would set to 100%.
Second + -> 10% increments
Third + -> 1% increment.
Similarly with - buttons.
This way you would need up to 10 clicks and you would have most precision here.
That would need some programming though
Buttons, that set to 100%/0% weren't in vanilla.

Better to reduce it to 1 plus and 1 minus button that can be shift-clicked (min/max) and ctrl-clicked (±10), that change by ±1 when clicked normally.

 

[raxo2222]

Better to reduce it to 1 plus and 1 minus button that can be shift-clicked (min/max) and ctrl-clicked (±10), that change by ±1 when clicked normally.

That is nice too, just add tooltip saying this, when you hover over these buttons.
And here we arrived at simple minimalism and maximum precision

 

[Thunderbrd]

There are 3 groups of creatures. I was under the impression it was to show their aggressiveness?

Nope. It's to craft their position in relation to other animals and whether they would be at odds with animal from other groups or not.

Well it's not getting any upgrade with the invention of quarry, nor does it seem like it's getting one at any time in the future. Pretty sure it's a bug (or intended).

It upgrades to a Natron something or other eventually. DH will have to look at that since this is his design.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about quarries on the "salt" resource, they work fine. It's the salt flat terrain that you can only construct the prehistoric salt gatherer on and never upgrade it.

It's something you have to manually upgrade if you're going to not have it turn into the natron generating improvement. You do take a hit for that since it's nowhere near as valuable as a quarry.

Better to reduce it to 1 plus and 1 minus button that can be shift-clicked (min/max) and ctrl-clicked (±10), that change by ±1 when clicked normally.

Agreed if that can be done with ease enough.

 

[olduser]

Right, I thought I fixed all the times I messed up that (my notepad++ has a tendency to mess it up without me touching the encoding settings). I've spent so many hours fixing messed up encoding that I've caused that I'm close to a tipping point mentally about it. ^^

I'll look into that revision again, do you have any tips on how to fix it other than to compare it to the earlier version and copy paste one entry at a time?

I fixed the text encoding errors in Captives_Build_CIV4GameText.xml, but there are a few more files with such errors. I'am working on an script to fix more encoding errors and convert the text XML files to UTF-8.

 

[raxo2222]

I fixed the text encoding errors in Captives_Build_CIV4GameText.xml, but there are a few more files with such errors. I'am working on an script to fix more encoding errors and convert the text XML files to UTF-8.

There is Djiina world wonder or something like that with broken ingame name - there are garbage characters after its name.

 

[Toffer90]

I fixed the text encoding errors in Captives_Build_CIV4GameText.xml, but there are a few more files with such errors. I'am working on an script to fix more encoding errors and convert the text XML files to UTF-8.

Thanks, didn't know I broke the encoding there in rev. 9491 as well.
Do you know of any other text files where I accidentally broke the encoding that I haven't fixed myself yet?
I like to clean up my own mess, but appreciate the helping hand.

The script will be nice to have for sure. ^^

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well it's not getting any upgrade with the invention of quarry, nor does it seem like it's getting one at any time in the future. Pretty sure it's a bug (or intended).

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about quarries on the "salt" resource, they work fine. It's the salt flat terrain that you can only construct the prehistoric salt gatherer on and never upgrade it.
Possibly some tech makes this possible during the classical or medieval period, but it's not clear from civipedia which that would be.

It should be upgrading so yes it is a bug. Modder 100001 did the last review and I have not touched anything there since.

It upgrades to a Natron something or other eventually. DH will have to look at that since this is his design.

Natron is a totally different resource. It is very rare and is supposed to help you with funnery buildings and mummification tech. I did discuss with Platyping an old mod that let you research a tech faster if you had a resource but have not added it to C2C yet.

 

[Toffer90]

There is Djiina world wonder or something like that with broken ingame name - there are garbage characters after its name.

Yeah, there's been an encoding error in Buildings_CIV4GameText.xml for a long time now, I'll have to figure out what rev that broke it.

Edit: SVN rev. 9536 was the rev where the first encoding error occurred in Buildings_CIV4GameText.xml.

Another one of my commits... sigh.

 

[raxo2222]

Toffer, There is tooltip saying what this button does, when you hover mouse over it.
It can be expanded with keyboard-mouse tip. (mouse only - 1%, ctrl click - 10% changes, shift - setting to min/max)

Spoiler :

Albetras, here is world wonder, that I mentioned.

Spoiler :

 

[Thunderbrd]

It should be upgrading so yes it is a bug. Modder 100001 did the last review and I have not touched anything there since.

Actually you added this after his review. I'm not looking at the details, just going off of limited memory. Natron or something along those lines was somehow related, as in it could be discovered there with use of this improvement or something like that.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Toffer, There is tooltip saying what this button does, when you hover mouse over it.
It can be expanded with keyboard-mouse tip. (mouse only - 1%, ctrl click - 10% changes, shift - setting to min/max)

Spoiler :

I don't like two + buttons, why would I like three! As long as all the extra ones can be turned off and I can still set the value for the normal one to what I want.

 

[raxo2222]

I don't like two + buttons, why would I like three! As long as all the extra ones can be turned off and I can still set the value for the normal one to what I want.

I and toffer meant to remove pair of buttons, so only one "+" and "-" button is here.
Its action would depend if you press it just with mouse (1%), or while pressing ctrl (10%) /shift (100%).

Edit:
I suggested third pair of buttons before Toffer said it can be done with one pair of buttons and two keyboard shortcuts

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I and toffer meant to remove pair of buttons, so only one "+" and "-" button is here.
Its action would depend if you press it just with mouse (1%), or while pressing ctrl (10%) /shift (100%).

1) So what happens when I change the value to 5 in the XML?

2)10% is the "normal default so you should not need to ctrl-click to get it. It should be the simple click. The others be the ones that need the extra key.