Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Noriad2]

OK. This would indicate all merchant mission values should come down some, or an adjustment to the final result is in order... maybe easier that way. If it was half of what you're experiencing, would it still be worth sending them out for this purpose?

I checked in World Builder..uMgungundlovu has a Palace (probably rebuilt it after the loss of their real capital).

Regarding balance, I can only speak for Nightmare mode. Units cost 5 gold/turn above the free limit, and thieves an additional +1 gold and rogues an additional +2 gold.
Plus you get a bit of extra crime from having a thief or rogue teleported to your own capital after each mission. I think Thieves are somewhat ok, but rogues give too much, given that they only cost 1 more in upkeep but give 95 more gold than the thief (and rogues are faster, too). I'd lower the rogue mission from 170 to 100 or so ( = 40% lower) . Even if it is not the enemy capital it trades with, that should still give it half of that (and rises anyway when the enemy city becomes bigger). That would make it still worth pursuing on nightmare level, and certainly worth it on lower difficulty levels.

Regarding Capital Bonus, I'm ok with that, most of the time it should give you the choice of either trading with the enemy city closest to your own capital, or the enemies' capital which is probably further away. You are very lucky if both your and the enemy's capitals are close together.

 

[Raledon]

The units seem to give an extremely high amount of gold/turn for their production cost.
An exile cost me 40p, and gave 53 to the nearest city (possibly a capital). This means that he gave me about 17-26 gold/turn, till he died. Compared to creating gold/research with production, this is more efficient, even if only one run is made. When compared to buildings, many buildings have a ROI of about 100 turns. This unit returns its cost far, far faster, in around 8 turns.
Considering that a unit will have... 10%? To be caught even by a guarded city, a unit should be able to make about 10 runs before getting caught and killed (assuming no dogs to scout them out midway to the city)

 

[Thunderbrd]

What I would want to do would impact all at one time. The units base values are measured against the merchants. So perhaps a 40% reduction is in order to gold mission rewards?

 

[Raledon]

What I would want to do would impact one at a time. The units base values are measured against the merchants. So perhaps a 40% reduction is in order to gold mission rewards?

The merchants have the same issue, with the difference of being a target of critters/criminals instead of LE/dogs.
While criminals giving less is a good idea (40% sounds like a fine amount), the current values are really high, as Noriad said. (unless merchant's gold values were adjusted and I didn't notice?)

 

[Thunderbrd]

The merchants have the same issue, with the difference of being a target of critters/criminals instead of LE/dogs.
While criminals giving less is a good idea (40% sounds like a fine amount), the current values are really high, as Noriad said. (unless merchant's gold values were adjusted and I didn't notice?)

I stated my comment wrong... I meant I'd affect them all at once. Merchants to criminals, just a global modifier that adjusts the end result of the mission function.

So you feel that the merchants are a little too high on their mission returns as well? Good... that'll mean they can all be adjusted.

 

[Noriad2]

SVN9870: selling off buildings still has wrong calculation. Prehistory/snail/nightmare/large map: rock gatherer costs 90 hammers to build but if I sell it off I get 30 gold even though the popup says I get 20%.
Not sure what is intended but taking an enemy city and selling off everything is a hell of a lot more lucrative now (it used to turn 4% of hammers to money at my usual game settings and now it is 33%)

 

[Thunderbrd]

SVN9870: selling off buildings still has wrong calculation. Prehistory/snail/nightmare/large map: rock gatherer costs 90 hammers to build but if I sell it off I get 30 gold even though the popup says I get 20%.
Not sure what is intended but taking an enemy city and selling off everything is a hell of a lot more lucrative now (it used to turn 4% of hammers to money at my usual game settings and now it is 33%)

Toffer addressed this but his modmod won't be in the mod until after release.

 

[Noriad2]

Toffer addressed this but his modmod won't be in the mod until after release.

Somebody else addressed it too as selling buildings now gives more than 8 times as much money.

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer addressed this but his modmod won't be in the mod until after release.

I addressed it in core SVN (what: gamespeed didn't influence the amount of money you got), in my modmod it currently cost money to demolish buildings.
I didn't address era modifier to building cost, which is what Noriad is seeing.
I'm not sure it should as that would make it more lucrative to sell off prehistoric buildings when you reach ancient era and so on.
Building cost is increased by 10% for all buildings for each era and it starts at 70% hammer cost in prehistoric era.

 

[Noriad2]

+Toffer90: I do like it when selling off buildings gives money (that's why I deinstalled your modmod after trying it even though it also had features I liked) but 32% return on selling as it is now is excessive. Especially as the AI tends to build everything available. The 4% yield on selling off buildings it used to be was fine, worth aiming for, but not excessive.

Also, building cost increase per era depends on difficulty level I believe, as my building cost increases a lot more than 10% per era.

 

[Toffer90]

+Toffer90: I do like it when selling off buildings gives money (that's why I deinstalled your modmod after trying it even though it also had features I liked) but 32% return on selling as it is now is excessive. Especially as the AI tends to build everything available. The 4% yield on selling off buildings it used to be was fine, worth aiming for, but not excessive.

It used to be a different percentage on all gamespeeds, was around 20% on normal gamespeed before I made any change.

Sure, I can tune it down to 4% (but I won't make it adjust to the era you're in.).

At all:​

Speak up if opposed to such a change? Should it be a bit more or less than 4%?
Anyone know who decided upon the 20% number that is in the help text for demolish?

Also, building cost increase per era depends on difficulty level I believe, as my building cost increases a lot more than 10% per era.

No, difficulty does not influence hammer cost of buildings one bit.
A building that has a base cost of 100 hammers (let's ignore the gamespeed factor) should cost 70 hammers (0.7 * 100) in prehistoric era, 80 hammers (0.8 * 100) in ancient era, and 200 hammers (2 * 100) in future era.
Gamespeed above normal would increase those numbers, how much depends on if you are using the upscaled unit and building cost gameoption which would also increase the numbers for normal gamespeed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just changed the era cost modifier arc last night so am very aware of that modifier.

I have no objection to your proposed change and welcome it.

 

[Raledon]

Department of water seem to be quite expansive for its era.
It cost as much as the other departments, but it comes a lot earlier.

 

[raxo2222]

Department of water seem to be quite expansive for its era.
It cost as much as the other departments, but it comes a lot earlier.

@Thunderbrd recosted all buildings.
Looks like he messed something here.
Water Departament has TECH_PLUMBING (X29) prereq and cost of 1660.
According to table base cost of Water Department would be 184 (*4 for being national wonder), that is 736

 

[JosEPh_II]

I just changed the era cost modifier arc last night so am very aware of that modifier.

I have no objection to your proposed change and welcome it.

Guess I'm late to the party but 4% is way too low. Even If noriad2 does not agree. Not everyone plays NM Deity nor is obsessed with finding loopholes to exploit. The original 20% was more in line for avg players needs If they are going to abandon a city and sell off the buildings.

 

[JosEPh_II]

184 is in late Ancient Era, Tech Plumbing xml:

<Type>TECH_PLUMBING</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING</Description>
           <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <Advisor>ADVISOR_CULTURE</Advisor>
           <iCost>274</iCost>
           <Era>ERA_ANCIENT</Era>
           <iAsset>2</iAsset>
           <bTrade>1</bTrade>
           <bGoodyTech>1</bGoodyTech>
           <iGridX>29</iGridX>
           <iGridY>5</iGridY>

As you can see iCost is 274 not 184.

Actually the Whole column for iGridX>29 is costed at 274. Are we missing something?

EDIT: iGridX>28 column iCost is at 242 and iGridX>30 iCost is 309.

So according to the chart there has to be another factor to this.

 

[raxo2222]

184 is in late Ancient Era, Tech Plumbing xml:

<Type>TECH_PLUMBING</Type>
           <Description>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING</Description>
           <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
           <Strategy>TXT_KEY_TECH_PLUMBING_STRATEGY</Strategy>
           <Advisor>ADVISOR_CULTURE</Advisor>
           <iCost>274</iCost>
           <Era>ERA_ANCIENT</Era>
           <iAsset>2</iAsset>
           <bTrade>1</bTrade>
           <bGoodyTech>1</bGoodyTech>
           <iGridX>29</iGridX>
           <iGridY>5</iGridY>

As you can see iCost is 274 not 184.

Actually the Whole column for iGridX>29 is costed at 274. Are we missing something?

You misread my post - I meant cost of water department NW, not cost of tech.
That table I linked above mentions building costs depending on latest tech requirement (that one having highest XGrid).

            <!-- Department of Water -->
            <BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_WATER_DEPARTMENT</BuildingClass>
            <Type>BUILDING_WATER_DEPARTMENT</Type>
            <MapCategoryTypes>
                <MapCategoryType>MAPCATEGORY_EARTH</MapCategoryType>
            </MapCategoryTypes>
            <Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DEPARTMENT_WATER</Description>
            <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DEPARTMENT_WATER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
            <Strategy>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DEPARTMENT_WATER_STRATEGY</Strategy>
            <!-- Prerequisites -->
            <PrereqTech>TECH_PLUMBING</PrereqTech>
            <iPrereqPopulation>13</iPrereqPopulation>
            <PrereqOrBuildingClasses>
                <PrereqOrBuildingClass>
                    <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_VIKING_TRADING_POST</BuildingClassType>
                    <bPrereqBuildingClass>1</bPrereqBuildingClass>
                </PrereqOrBuildingClass>
                <PrereqOrBuildingClass>
                    <BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_OFFICES</BuildingClassType>
                    <bPrereqBuildingClass>1</bPrereqBuildingClass>
                </PrereqOrBuildingClass>
            </PrereqOrBuildingClasses>
            <!-- Cost -->
            <iCost>1660</iCost>
            <iHurryCostModifier>100</iHurryCostModifier>
            <Advisor>ADVISOR_GROWTH</Advisor>
            <!-- Local -->
            <YieldChanges>
                <iYield>0</iYield>
                <iYield>4</iYield>
            </YieldChanges>
            <CommerceChanges>
                <iCommerce>-10</iCommerce>
            </CommerceChanges>
            <SpecialistCounts>
                <SpecialistCount>
                    <SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_ENGINEER</SpecialistType>
                    <iSpecialistCount>1</iSpecialistCount>
                </SpecialistCount>
            </SpecialistCounts>
            <!-- Global -->
            <FreeBuilding>BUILDINGCLASS_WATER_PIPES</FreeBuilding>
            <!-- Misc -->
            <bNeverCapture>1</bNeverCapture>
            <ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_WATER_DEPARTMENT</ArtDefineTag>
        </BuildingInfo>

 

[JosEPh_II]

<nvrmd>

 

[raxo2222]

From table, that lists cost of building depending on its tech prereq:
Base Production Costs by Tech X Grid
(of the latest prereq tech to unlock the building or unit)
4/13/2017(est. during v38 design cycle)

Column Base Production Cost
29 -------- 184 (X4 for NW would be 736 hammers)

Actual base cost for Water Department NW is 1660 - bit too high, as Raledon reported.

Unless there is different, more updated table, where base cost of building with latest tech requirement being at X29 is same as tech cost itself.
I'm using this table: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/building-re-costing-project.620246/ to check how expensive building should be.
Cost of Plumbing tech doesn't matter here at all.

 

[Niveras]

The Ikhanda wonder requires a storage pit to be built, but if the Warehouse is built, the storage pit is removed and the Ikhanda can no longer be built.