Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Thunderbrd]

As for the matter of the settlers, I believe I'm seeing a price spike around double to triple of what it cost around a month ago. Back then an average city could build a settler in 6-8 turns, now my absolutely best city can build them in 12. The rest of them builds them in 16-20 turns.

The era in which you are building the settler and the difficulty setting does have an impact. Are you playing on Nightmare? There's a slight adjustment to training scaling taking place there but really not all that severe since the global also has gone down. I'm not sure about the underlying growth scaling factors. I'll take a look at that.

Wait, I think I figured it out. I probably moved the 'extra cost' formula so that it is further adjusted by the training factors, wondering why the hell any unit would not be, but apparently the growth scaling factors were supposed to be all that controlled the settler units - and as I look closer, ONLY settler units are getting any costs from that 'extra unit cost' function (which could REALLY thus do to be renamed so it doesn't sound like a more generic application of an additional base amount for further modification afterwards!)

Ok, I'll correct that. AND add a note so that it makes it clear why that function isn't supposed to be influenced by training scale factors.

 

[Septimius]

In other news, my otherwise well functioning massive southern neighbour is now in the process of collapsing completely. For some reason all his police units have left his major cities!? So he's imploding under crime induced rebels.

He's only been in a war with me, where I took one of his cities, so it ain't war induced.

I've only played a few turns on the latest SVN updates, so I can't say whether it's an older problem or a newer one, but I've got a feeling that he's been sending massive stacks of policemen to new cities that may only have needed one or two.

That makes him the second out of three civs I've met that's imploding from crime.

I'm looking with certain interest at my northern neighbour to see whether the same thing happens there also.

Save included if you want to have a closer look... And a save from 30 turns before for you to compare with.


Edit: Yep, my northern neighbour is leaving some of his cities completely empty of police type units as well. Most of his cities are well policed though.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In other news, my otherwise well functioning massive southern neighbour is now in the process of collapsing completely. For some reason all his police units have left his major cities!? So he's imploding under crime induced rebels.

He's only been in a war with me, where I took one of his cities, so it ain't war induced.

I've only played a few turns on the latest SVN updates, so I can't say whether it's an older problem or a newer one, but I've got a feeling that he's been sending massive stacks of policemen to new cities that may only have needed one or two.

That makes him the second out of three civs I've met that's imploding from crime.

I'm looking with certain interest at my northern neighbour to see whether the same thing happens there also.

Save included if you want to have a closer look... And a save from 30 turns before for you to compare with.


Edit: Yep, my northern neighbour is leaving some of his cities completely empty of police type units as well. Most of his cities are well policed though.

This one's a bit more difficult and time consuming to sort out but it does sound worth of addressing pre-release. So I'll get on it this afternoon.

 

[Septimius]

This one's a bit more difficult and time consuming to sort out but it does sound worth of addressing pre-release. So I'll get on it this afternoon.

Let me know if you want earlier saves, maybe it'll give you an idea of when the problem started. When the rebellions break out, the problem must have existed for quite a while already.

I can give you dates with the saves, that should give you an approximate idea of which SVN's it's been working with.

Also nice catch on the settler thing, I had a feeling that something was off

 

[Thunderbrd]

Let me know if you want earlier saves, maybe it'll give you an idea of when the problem started. When the rebellions break out, the problem must have existed for quite a while already.

I can give you dates with the saves, that should give you an approximate idea of which SVN's it's been working with.

Also nice catch on the settler thing, I had a feeling that something was off

There is a portion of the code that is supposed to keep the property control units from overreacting like this so I have a pretty good idea where to watch things process to see why they ARE overreacting. If it's happening in one place it's probably happening in other places and I should be able to catch it in the act fairly easily.

As for the settler matter, I appreciate your feedback on that - my wife noticed last night too that settlers seemed unusually expensive but I kinda dismissed it at first because it kinda thought it was supposed to be that they were quite a bit more expensive than most units. But then when you brought it up and I remembered that they automatically derive their costs, I realized I needed to investigate this to the fullest. If I had more pressing things to attend to I might have shelved it. It's good to be on top of bug reports and only getting them in and exactly as fast as I'm addressing them.

@All: Please say yay or nay as to whether you feel we should adjust the tall grass to offer some production when cleared. So far, the yay's are having it so I've made the adjustments already. Also, found that new forest and standard forest give the same so I'm upping forests from a base of 30 to 40. Any disagreements should speak up. I'm happy to revert or further adjust if we have some disagreement to these adjustments.

 

[Shoobs]

I'm just going to put this here...
http://puu.sh/zlD6o/1fed8c01a1.jpg

This is more of a funny than a need to fix.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm just going to put this here...
http://puu.sh/zlD6o/1fed8c01a1.jpg

This is more of a funny than a need to fix.

Sorry... the missus and I both studied this for about 5 minutes trying to figure out what you were trying to show to be amiss here. No luck. What are you trying to point out?

 

[Shoobs]

Sorry... the missus and I both studied this for about 5 minutes trying to figure out what you were trying to show to be amiss here. No luck. What are you trying to point out?

Rocky flood plains with the ability to build a wetland camp.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Rocky flood plains with the ability to build a wetland camp.

Flood plains supersede rocky.

 

[Noriad2]

When are you supposed to be able to set the Tribal Guardian to buildup-crimefighting (red shield button)? I assumed it would be at Deception. I researched Deception but no buildup-crimefighting. I recall wondering about it in earlier games and eventually got it but much later in the tech tree.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Rocky flood plains with the ability to build a wetland camp.

Flood plains supersede rocky.

Wetland Camps go on terrain Muddy or Marsh or terrain features Swamp, Flood Plains or Fresh Water Basin.

It is possible to turn an impropvement off on a terrain feature not so easy on a terrain type and as Joe says in this case the feature trumps the type.

 

[Thunderbrd]

When are you supposed to be able to set the Tribal Guardian to buildup-crimefighting (red shield button)? I assumed it would be at Deception. I researched Deception but no buildup-crimefighting. I recall wondering about it in earlier games and eventually got it but much later in the tech tree.

XML states Deception. Would be interesting to evaluate why it doesn't show up then.

 

[JosEPh_II]

When are you supposed to be able to set the Tribal Guardian to buildup-crimefighting (red shield button)? I assumed it would be at Deception. I researched Deception but no buildup-crimefighting. I recall wondering about it in earlier games and eventually got it but much later in the tech tree.

They don't anymore. When you get Enforcers you can turn the TG into an Enforcer. And then fight crime. Was changed some time ago. But I don't know by whom or when.

 

[JosEPh_II]

In other news, my otherwise well functioning massive southern neighbour is now in the process of collapsing completely. For some reason all his police units have left his major cities!? So he's imploding under crime induced rebels.

He's only been in a war with me, where I took one of his cities, so it ain't war induced.

I've only played a few turns on the latest SVN updates, so I can't say whether it's an older problem or a newer one, but I've got a feeling that he's been sending massive stacks of policemen to new cities that may only have needed one or two.

That makes him the second out of three civs I've met that's imploding from crime.

I'm looking with certain interest at my northern neighbour to see whether the same thing happens there also.

Save included if you want to have a closer look... And a save from 30 turns before for you to compare with.


Edit: Yep, my northern neighbour is leaving some of his cities completely empty of police type units as well. Most of his cities are well policed though.

Is this because you are playing with Rev? If an AI city goes into Revolt thru Rev would the AI Empire not do this that you are seeing? Seems like standard Rev reactions doesn't it?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is this because you are playing with Rev? If an AI city goes into Revolt thru Rev would the AI Empire not do this that you are seeing? Seems like standard Rev reactions doesn't it?

I found a case in the AI coding that can allow too many prop contrl units to leave the city if the property they control is at better than 0 value. For the most part, the 'self-control' protocol does work but in that particular case of, say, negative crime has been achieved, then the self-control protocol was never checked properly. Thus why it was somewhat unusual for it to happen but very well could.

 

[Thunderbrd]

They don't anymore. When you get Enforcers you can turn the TG into an Enforcer. And then fight crime. Was changed some time ago. But I don't know by whom or when.

I don't see how just looking at the XML. They are still law enforcement unitcombats and should be able to set to crime control buildup once the first buildup is qualified, which is at Deception. That said, obviously I'm not seeing something here in what appears to be straight forward xml. I'd love to evaluate the case where it SHOULD be possible. I wonder if caching exists somewhere on that. Then again, at Deception I think they can upgrade so if you're quick to do it, you'd not see the ability to set the buildup.

I use them for building up the visibility on disguise so that they can spot incoming exiles but that's only a Hide and Seek factor.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In other news, my otherwise well functioning massive southern neighbour is now in the process of collapsing completely. For some reason all his police units have left his major cities!? So he's imploding under crime induced rebels.

He's only been in a war with me, where I took one of his cities, so it ain't war induced.

I've only played a few turns on the latest SVN updates, so I can't say whether it's an older problem or a newer one, but I've got a feeling that he's been sending massive stacks of policemen to new cities that may only have needed one or two.

That makes him the second out of three civs I've met that's imploding from crime.

I'm looking with certain interest at my northern neighbour to see whether the same thing happens there also.

Save included if you want to have a closer look... And a save from 30 turns before for you to compare with.


Edit: Yep, my northern neighbour is leaving some of his cities completely empty of police type units as well. Most of his cities are well policed though.

I found a few logic flaws in the system intended to keep them from over-committing to sending property control units and improved on it. This will really help with them not turning their backs on local criminals just because they've overcome crime in a location.

 

[raxo2222]

@Thunderbrd
You know player builds faster than AI on handicaps below Deity?
If normalizing Noble production costs without final price change of >6% (details in stuff excel file in this post) will be done after release, then can be AI production cost modifiers be changed to 75, so AI is faster on production than player above Noble difficulties?
I see you slightly moved globals to 90.
That is everything costs 12.5% more (90/80) and SM units will be have 14% (80/70) higher price.
This is why purely multiplicative modifiers are so good - you increase one and you can instantly tell how much costs will change.
In normalized Noble that would be equivalent of 67.5

 

[Thunderbrd]

You know player builds faster than AI on handicaps below Deity?

Incorrect. Pretty sure anyhow. The AI is building at the modifier assigned to Noble, which is very low now and is much the same as what the modifier would've been for the AI alone when production costs were unmodified by difficulty setting. Having the AI modifiers ALSO then in effect was doubling up on those for the AI and making it far too difficult on the hardest settings.

I changed the globals so that the tech to production ratio that the game opens up with is about the same as what Joe and I agreed was hitting the right amounts when we were testing things earlier this cycle.

Noted bug I will resolve before wed that shouldn't reset the freeze clock - Venus of Willendorf is overcost.

 

[raxo2222]

Incorrect. Pretty sure anyhow. The AI is building at the modifier assigned to Noble, which is very low now and is much the same as what the modifier would've been for the AI alone when production costs were unmodified by difficulty setting. Having the AI modifiers ALSO then in effect was doubling up on those for the AI and making it far too difficult on the hardest settings.

I changed the globals so that the tech to production ratio that the game opens up with is about the same as what Joe and I agreed was hitting the right amounts when we were testing things earlier this cycle.

Noted bug I will resolve before wed that shouldn't reset the freeze clock - Venus of Willendorf is overcost.

Ah nice to know, thought I found bug as I didn't knew, that AI cost calculation does this.