Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I guess the 'fix' would be to have bRequiresPeak supercede the ability for bBonusMakesValid to make it possible to build when not on a peak tile.
Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
None of this has been added to the SVN.
I did find somethings though that probably should be. The Upgrade path for Mountain Mines to Core Mines is missing. And there is no regular mine (like Shaft or Modern) that will upgrade to a Mountain Mine with the bPeakValid tag.
Also Fine Clay has no values for dispersion or deletion on several of the mines. So it won't get placed.
JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That's because it was not supposed to be able to upgrade - the idea of the mtn mine was to make it so that we had one mine that would naturally improve with techs that would graphically work well with peaks since they were so unusual for graphics.
Maybe, but perhaps we should rather think about changing how the code for the bonusinvicinity requirement for buildings work instead. Why would it only look for improvement that has bBonusMakesValid=1 for the relevant bonus. Can't it just look for improvements that provide the bonus. The mountain mine provide the bonus without using bBonusMakesValid=1 atm.
Regular mines now only use the bBonusMakesValid=1 so that the correct bonus allows them to be built on flatland, regular mines shouldn't be possible to build on a peak even with the correct bonus.
How can we ensure this functionality? I'm too tired to think more on this issue.
Mountain mine should be the only mine available on peaks, hence no mines should upgrade to mountain mine. If stone tool workshop can be built on peaks then perhaps they should be able to upgrade to mountain mine.
Last edited:
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
And that is the Start of the Mountain MIne upgrade path, what there is of it.
And as for Mountain mine being the Only mine available on Peaks, that is a bad idea. Shaft mines have been built on peaks since the pre classical days of history. But for the game someone had other ideas and now we have bottleneck problem that causes other items that Need the resource that can appear on a peak but if the upgrade path is broken then they can't get built, example Oleh's problem.
So something has to give. I say the Stone workshops allowed on peaks (built by llama and another worker unit) should Upgrade to shaft mines which in turn would upgrade to Mountain mines with the proper prereq tech and the proper bPeakValid or some such tag.
We would then avoid this 2 page long bug hunt problem because a player can get x benefit from 1 Mountain mine but not from another Mountain Mine with the same resource. Again Oleh's problem. And we only see this from a well developed game so we have no 1st hand knowledge of what is going on in the Ren or Ind or Modern era, cause we "think" what we did will work right. Well apparently this does not as Oleh has patiently shown. Mountain Mines have problems.
JosEPh
Ok TB, if <bPeakMakesValid>1</bPeakMakesValid> overrides <bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
(So mountain mines won't be possible to be built on non-peaks.)
then <bPeakMakesValid>0</bPeakMakesValid> should also override it
(So regular mines won't be buildable on Peaks.)
Or perhaps we need a new tag to increase the versatility:
<bPeakMakesInvalid>1</bPeakMakesInvalid> that overrides <bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
@TB: In the end you decide how to handle this.
(So mountain mines won't be possible to be built on non-peaks.)
then <bPeakMakesValid>0</bPeakMakesValid> should also override it
(So regular mines won't be buildable on Peaks.)
Or perhaps we need a new tag to increase the versatility:
<bPeakMakesInvalid>1</bPeakMakesInvalid> that overrides <bBonusMakesValid>1</bBonusMakesValid>
@TB: In the end you decide how to handle this.
Last edited:
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Does a Shaft Mine placed on a peak cause a Graphical CTD? If it just "Looks Funny" but doesn't cause a CTD then so what who really cares?
JosEPh
JosEPh
No CTD, and I don't remember how the shaft mine looks on peaks.
Why do we absolutely need an upgrade line for mountain mines? Do we need an upgrade line for the radio tower as well then, should I make a smoke signal fire improvement that later can upgrade to the radio tower?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I don't think it is possible currently for regular mines to be built on peaks despite the bBonusMakesValid boolean usage.
That's actually right... that's the best way to go about it. The one thing I never looked into when helping out the modder that wanted the mountain mines setup the way they are is vicinity bonus coding. I'm not sure where it is but I can find it. Just not anytime too soon.
A question, and a proposed answer:
Should a resource only be included as 'in vicinity' if the peak can be worked already or not, even if improved?
I would propose to suggest that if there is a route and a proper improvement, the vicinity factor should be granted - for help with access to some resources that apparently love to show up on peaks but have their best impact in the earliest stages of the game.
They can and they do.
The mountain mine is assumed to be whatever type of mine or quarry is best for that resource and/or peak plot. There's no bottleneck, just an issue with peaks and their bonuses being considered in vicinity or not. It's vague and the problem is in the vicinity code.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I hate to say that's a cool idea but... that's kinda a cool idea.
I would prefer that the vicinity bonus requirement gets granted when the bonus is within city work area, period.
Even if the bonus is not improved, has no route, or even if the city doesn't have the bonus listed in its available resources tab.
If we want a building to require access to the resource as well then we would use <PrereqBonuses> alongside <PrereqVicinityBonuses>.
Hahaha, maybe one day. ^^
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
That's problematic to the intent of vicinity access, being a representation of local plentifulness. If you haven't established the means to get the resource into the city then just because it's within the workable radius doesn't mean the city is obtaining much of it.
It still represent a local plentifulness even though the nation as a whole is not reaping the benefit of the specific resource.
Do you need to have a mine (improvement) on the iron deposit to build a mine (building) on the same iron deposit?
Improvements are large scale and national while a city building is small scale and local.
Do one need iron in the city market to build a city owned iron mine?
Carrion gatherer building would only need animal bonuses in vicinity, no need for the animals to be an available commodity in the city market.
I'm rambling, I don't see the problem is all.
Correction, <PrereqVicinityBonuses>.should also require the bonus to be revealed on the map, I forgot to mention that.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I was hoping you would ramble through various situations actually, so that I could see how I feel about it when put in your perspective. You're making convincing arguments.
However, some devil's arguments: I see the mine buildings as mine 'company' administration centers. They sell what the mine is bringing in. Totally get the idea regarding the carrion. How would even the city get stone back if it's not being quarried and transported on at least a path of some sort?
Here's my save. Its significantly after when I raised these guys up. I can't answer the second question.
Edit:
SVN 9443
Last edited:
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
This would break so much. Btw how can you have a resource both available and not available at the same time?
We always wanted vicinity to be a subset of available that is how all the building lines are designed
- Available = improved and connected to city by route
- Vicinity = available and in the work area of the city.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
May not help much because I'll need to see it happen in progress but it can at least give me an idea of the settings I need to know about.
Here are the buildings that requires a stone deposit somewhere around a city:
BUILDINGCLASS_STONE_QUARRY
BUILDINGCLASS_JAPANESE_SHALE_PLANT
BUILDINGCLASS_SANDPIT_STONE
BUILDINGCLASS_BORAX_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_CHALK_PIT
BUILDINGCLASS_COBALT_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_FOSSIL_NEANDERTHAL
BUILDINGCLASS_FLUORITE_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_GRAPHITE_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_PIGEON_COOP
BUILDINGCLASS_LIZARD_CATCHER
BUILDINGCLASS_QUARTZ_MINE
None of these seems to me as a local expansion to an already established large scale stone excavation in the area.
To me the logic here is, if the city has a large high quality stone deposit close by, then it may also have enough borax, chalk, shale, quartz, cobalt, fluorite and graphite deposits to warrant the construction of these other types of mines in the area.
I see no logic at all for why the Pigeon Coop and Lizard Catcher would require a stone deposit close by to warrant their existence.
You are right, it makes sense for it to require at least a route to the stone deposit for these buildings to be buildable, as they would be located somewhere close to the plot that has the stone deposit. it would also allow enemies to stop these buildings from functioning by destroying any route to the bonus.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
This had to be Hydro and his reasoning would that the stone quarry provides a habitat for these 2 animals to live in. Lots of things like this were Hydro's designs all snitched from Sim City.
I can honestly say I have Never built either one of these 2 in any game here to date, ever.
JosEPh
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
