Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Here are the buildings that requires a stone deposit somewhere around a city:
BUILDINGCLASS_STONE_QUARRY
BUILDINGCLASS_JAPANESE_SHALE_PLANT
BUILDINGCLASS_SANDPIT_STONE
BUILDINGCLASS_BORAX_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_CHALK_PIT
BUILDINGCLASS_COBALT_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_FOSSIL_NEANDERTHAL
BUILDINGCLASS_FLUORITE_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_GRAPHITE_MINE
BUILDINGCLASS_QUARTZ_MINE

None of these seems to me as a local expansion to an already established large scale stone excavation in the area.
To me the logic here is, if the city has a large high quality stone deposit close by, then it may also have enough borax, chalk, shale, quartz, cobalt, fluorite and graphite deposits to warrant the construction of these other types of mines in the area.

This is done to allow more resources without having more on the map. There are quite a few of these for the different mine and quarry map bonuses. It is just a way to add a bit more flavor and difference while getting a bit closer to reality. The Rio Tinto region in Spain provides many metals but even in the biggest maps would only take up one plot on a Civ IV map. Do we have it just provide one metal of add some other seemingly unconnected local requirements to give something that resembles reality?

I see no logic at all for why the Pigeon Coop and Lizard Catcher would require a stone deposit close by to warrant their existence.

These were from before we had those animals in game. Easy enough to change them to animal buildings.

 

[Oleh Lunin]

And here I am with the same save...

So, another bug: I just researched the Aquaculture tech, but no cities with Coral Reefs or Great Barrier Reef in the vicinity could build the Sponge Farm. I have made a fix that solved it locally.

I attach the fix and the save.

 

[Toffer90]

This is done to allow more resources without having more on the map. There are quite a few of these for the different mine and quarry map bonuses. It is just a way to add a bit more flavor and difference while getting a bit closer to reality. The Rio Tinto region in Spain provides many metals but even in the biggest maps would only take up one plot on a Civ IV map. Do we have it just provide one metal of add some other seemingly unconnected local requirements to give something that resembles reality?

My point exactly, there is no need for an established national stone quarry for there to be a local borax/other mine in the area of the stone deposit.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My point exactly, there is no need for an established national stone quarry for there to be a local borax/other mine in the area of the stone deposit.

OK I must have missed a post somewhere because that makes no sense whatsoever. I have noticed that the new forums don't always show the first of the unread entries and since I have been on the road a lot recently...

 

[Toffer90]

OK I must have missed a post somewhere because that makes no sense whatsoever. I have noticed that the new forums don't always show the first of the unread entries and since I have been on the road a lot recently...

I don't think you've missed any essential post here, maybe you only misinterpreted some of my clumsy formulations; I'm not a native english speaker and can sometimes fail to convey my meaning clearly.
The core of the discussion is, do <PrereqVicinityBonuses> really need to only work for improved resources.
I can think of many examples where a resource is revealed on the map before it is possible to build an improvement that provides the resource.
Would it then not be neat for the closest cities to be able to build buildings, that depend on the resource being there, without having nationwide access to the resource?
Oil is a good example, as it can be revealed through an event as early as in the prehistoric time.

Wikipedia: "Four thousand years ago, according to Herodotus and confirmed by Diodorus Siculus, asphalt was employed in the construction of the walls and towers of Babylon; there were oil pits near Ardericca (near Babylon), and a pitch spring on Zacynthus (Ionian islands, Greece).[1] Great quantities of it were found on the banks of the river Issus[citation needed], one of the tributaries of the Euphrates. Ancient Persian tablets indicate the medicinal and lighting uses of petroleum in the upper levels of their society"

Oil deposit are rarely accessible as surface oil seeps, therefore a more complex requirement combination of features/terrain, would be needed for early buildings that require oil in city vicinity.

Edit: It occurred to me now that we have tar pit features, they represent surface oil seeps, don't they? Maybe oil wasn't the best example but I'm sure there are other good examples... Like copper usage before mining.

This would break so much. Btw how can you have a resource both available and not available at the same time?

We always wanted vicinity to be a subset of available that is how all the building lines are designed

• Available = improved and connected to city by route

• Vicinity = available and in the work area of the city.

What I'm saying is that the resource might be "available" in a small degree to the closest cities without it being available nationwide. Not available enought to have it in the resource list of the city but available enough for certain buildings to be built.

Please give some examples of what specific building such a change would break without it being possible to perform a reasonable work around.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes and No.

The reason that some resources are shown before they can be used is so that you can plan where to build your cities. This is mainly the case for the old strategic resources which are essential for units.

Most of the resources were used before the improvements we have but this is because we are trying to suggest "industrial" usage not "cottage" usage. We had a lot of discussion about one metal in particular, it has been used in very small amounts since the stone age by beating it into foil with a hammer but the process to actually use it on a large scale requires electricity. How do we show this since all we have is available/not available at the moment. It is available if it has a route and an improvement on it.

You are suggesting a completely new mechanism which will require new programing.

Mind you if we had it I would like to suggest that having access to the resource would reduce the cost of the tech that makes it available. Platyping has already written me some code for this.

 

[Toffer90]

You are suggesting a completely new mechanism which will require new programing.

I'm merely suggesting a simplification of the programming behind the <PrereqVicinityBonuses> building requirement tag. I don't think there is any need for AI programming accompanying this.

But maybe you are right, that instead of simplifying it, we should branch <PrereqVicinityBonuses> one more step and include a new support tag to it like <bImproved> that specifies if the bonus must be improved or not.
XML example:

            <PrereqVicinityBonuses>
                    <PrereqVicinityBonus>
                        <VicinityBonus>BONUS_MELON</VicinityBonus>
                        <bImproved>1</bImproved>
                    </PrereqVicinityBonus>
            </PrereqVicinityBonuses>

 

[Thunderbrd]

@TB,

ok disappearing Battleship again, this time i am NOT at war with anyone, and at the present no criminals in city, but next turn poof gone

This was a very important bug to fix. Thankfully, it is resolved now.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm merely suggesting a simplification of the programming behind the <PrereqVicinityBonuses> building requirement tag. I don't think there is any need for AI programming accompanying this.

But maybe you are right, that instead of simplifying it, we should branch <PrereqVicinityBonuses> one more step and include a new support tag to it like <bImproved> that specifies if the bonus must be improved or not.
XML example:

            <PrereqVicinityBonuses>
                    <PrereqVicinityBonus>
                        <VicinityBonus>BONUS_MELON</VicinityBonus>
                        <bImproved>1</bImproved>
                    </PrereqVicinityBonus>
            </PrereqVicinityBonuses>

It is not AI code but just new code to recognise an unimproved resource in the city work area. There may be code in the worker stuff that recognises it but you are asking for buildings to be based on it and it being available to be coded in the XML ie new code. It would probably need to be available to Python also so that the various UI elements can use the info.

 

[Noriad2]

SVN 9446 repeatable crash-to-desktop.

Trying out the new post-V37 Deity/nightmare option, and came across a repeatable CTD.
Savegame and minidump attached. Since the bug reproduction method is mildly complex, I have decided to start a youtube channel and record the actions that I took to reproduce the crash.

Its my first video so it could be better (For future C2C videos I'll need to work on my diction and I'm not happy about the video quality. Maybe even buy a real mic) but I believe it is adequate:

 

[Noriad2]

Also, at 0:12 in the above video, it seems that the opening picture is moved down, and the bottom few centimeters of the picture appear at the top of the screen.

 

[Toffer90]

Also, at 0:12 in the above video, it seems that the opening picture is moved down, and the bottom few centimeters of the picture appear at the top of the screen.

Considering the loading screen I would say that you are playing on a 4:3 aspect ratio screen, that would explain the strangeness seen in the main menu background picture, I could fix this, but i won't prioritize it right now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Noriad2,

Did you save the game right before you clicked the Red button on the turn that CTD. If not do so, as that helps T-brd even more in finding the problem. Save it before you Click the EoT button. And did you try a Re-Calc at the begginning of that last turn? Try it too.

Also there have been several updates to the SVN since v9446. Updating may help you.

I also have to ask, when you click load Single Player, the Load game why do you have to click the side panel for Single player? Or was that Auto you clicked to replay the turn sequence?

JosEPh

 

[Toffer90]

@TB: Could you take a look at how the total defense combat odds is calculated for the odds window.
Would you have any idea why I always see these way too large sums that can in no way be the sum of some of those small numbers above it?

Spoiler Combat odds bug. :

@All: Have anyone seen this before, or is it something only I experience?

 

[tmv]

I have seen something like that, but not very often.

 

[Noriad2]

SVN9446: microlith tech has a silent audio track.

 

[Noriad2]

@Noriad2,

Did you save the game right before you clicked the Red button on the turn that CTD. If not do so, as that helps T-brd even more in finding the problem. Save it before you Click the EoT button. And did you try a Re-Calc at the begginning of that last turn? Try it too.

Also there have been several updates to the SVN since v9446. Updating may help you.

I also have to ask, when you click load Single Player, the Load game why do you have to click the side panel for Single player? Or was that Auto you clicked to replay the turn sequence?

JosEPh

Hi JosEPh: the crash I described apparently depends very much on a specific RNG seed. The workaround is very simple: I save the game (which changes the RNG seed), reload, and the crash won't occur. Or load the same autosave, move my units in a different direction, and the crash won't occur. But then the underlying bug remains hidden. The reason I so painstakingly documented every single action directly from the same autosave is that it is the only way to reliably recreate the crash. As there is a specific RNG seed saved in the autosave, things will happen that will not happen if I do anything else. Random crashes are the hardest to track down so I specifically made some extra effort to document this one.

In the video I did the same exact set of actions twice.

And yes I clicked on the autosave directory. And I did not recalc anything as I played straight from the first turn.

 

[Noriad2]

counting tech also has a silent audio track.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well good thing you did the video. Now the Bug squashers will have a detailed road map to follow.

 

[Shoobs]

@TB: Could you take a look at how the total defense combat odds is calculated for the odds window.
Would you have any idea why I always see these way too large sums that can in no way be the sum of some of those small numbers above it?

Spoiler Combat odds bug. :

View attachment 465905

@All: Have anyone seen this before, or is it something only I experience?

Many many many times and I believe it is one of the primary reasons our units will suicide ( on hunterAI ) against things that are INCREDIBLY OVERPOWERED relative to their strength, like a stone thrower against a large pack of jaguars/bears/etc. I've had this go as low as 20ish %!

This could ALSO be why our hunting units don't even glance at the littlest little pigeon as well.