Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[JosEPh_II]

Edit: mercy rule (from BUG) seems to work based on Mastery Victory's settings instead of the score as indicated.

Yes Mercy Rule Only applies to Mastery Victory score keeping No Other. In other words Don't use Mercy Rule Unless you have Mastery active as well. This was built by Aforress and Not by any C2C modder.

Carrack Merchant returns to the capital instead of the city it was built, resulting in the merchant ship popping up in a land city. I'd expect it to be destroyed or pop at some random coastal city, at the very least.

Sorry not built that way. Perhaps you should consider changing your Capital to a Large Coastal city you own?

The AI seem to be plagued by revolution.

If you are using Revolution the Option then Yes you've handicapped the AI. Rev does not play nice for the AI concerning Crime. Imhpo too many conflicts with Rev coding.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is the AI still susceptible to bad crime handling?
The AI seem to be plagued by revolution. Looking at a few nearby cities, it seem to build/station its armies poorly.
For example, in the pic below there are 15 units which causes crime while stationed in the city, and only one LE. This will surely cause issues for the AI, sooner or later.
The other cities don't seem much better. There are a few guards walking around (you can see a group of 8 LE on the peaks), but they are not stationed in the cities, indicating the AI might be moving them around all the time instead of creating additional units.

Spoiler :

View attachment 484009

I'm hunting down the problem they have with staffing tons of crime units in their cities. Please post a game that shows them having a problem with this if you've confirmed you've found the issue!

Another couple of issues:
It's unclear if guilds really give gold as intended. From my understanding, each guild should give +5 gold for each building of that type, in the city the building is built. However, I don't seem to get the gold in the city, so I'm wondering how it works.
Carrack Merchant returns to the capital instead of the city it was built, resulting in the merchant ship popping up in a land city. I'd expect it to be destroyed or pop at some random coastal city, at the very least.

We'll have to look at that first one as a distinct bug possibility. Can't say for sure right now.

When the Carrack Merchant returns to the capital, what has it just done? We should now be able to set it to return to the city it was trained in and that might be what it's doing of a sort. There could be something special about how they get into the game... are they coming from an event or are they actually being trained with hammers somewhere?

 

[JosEPh_II]

When the Carrack Merchant returns to the capital, what has it just done? We should now be able to set it to return to the city it was trained in and that might be what it's doing of a sort. There could be something special about how they get into the game... are they coming from an event or are they actually being trained with hammers somewhere?

All Merchant ships are built by production. Any Coastal city with a ship yard can build one. You get a limited number by design. They are also programmed by DH to return to your Capital City instead of the city they were built in after they have reached their destination and you have enacted the Trade. Iirc DH based their actions off of the spy AI. That is why they return to Capital when trade finished.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

All Merchant ships are built by production. Any Coastal city with a ship yard can build one. You get a limited number by design. They are also programmed by DH to return to your Capital City instead of the city they were built in after they have reached their destination and you have enacted the Trade. Iirc DH based their actions off of the spy AI. That is why they return to Capital when trade finished.

They are from Orion Veteran's "Pirates and Merchant" mod set. The programming is from there also.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'm hunting down the problem they have with staffing tons of crime units in their cities. Please post a game that shows them having a problem with this if you've confirmed you've found the issue!

There seems to be a gap in the LE chain caused by tech placement. So you/AI can lose access to former LE units. If it gets bad enough then the only LE unit available is the low str Crowbar unit. Which is too costly and therefore takes too long to get enough to climb out of the Crime sinkhole. Once Criminal units like Scoundrels and above occur in game, you need a city designated to pump out the Police Units to have even a chance at keeping the Crime somewhat controlled. I truly believe you will find that you upper tier (scoundrel and above) Criminals are OP.

And if the AI is involved in a war the problem is multiplied.

There is more to it than even this though as Options used can create bad situations for the AI.

Part of SO's game problem is he is using all the Combat Mods plus Outbreaks But also the Vanilla Combat system. That has to be causing problems as well.

 

[JosEPh_II]

They are from Orion Veteran's "Pirates and Merchant" mod set. The programming is from there also.

Thanks for the clarification DH. I only really knew that you added it in. And so I made my statement based on that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

All Merchant ships are built by production. Any Coastal city with a ship yard can build one. You get a limited number by design. They are also programmed by DH to return to your Capital City instead of the city they were built in after they have reached their destination and you have enacted the Trade. Iirc DH based their actions off of the spy AI. That is why they return to Capital when trade finished.

This is a little incorrect. There is a merchant ship type that is only given out for free and I can't remember offhand which one it is. It might be the one being discussed. As for where they return, that's why I asked 'after what' because the mission type matters. There may be one DH did but the primary mission for gold trade is in the dll and I recently did some stuff there - I need to look but I don't think I said to have it go to capital... maybe.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There seems to be a gap in the LE chain caused by tech placement. So you/AI can lose access to former LE units. If it gets bad enough then the only LE unit available is the low str Crowbar unit. Which is too costly and therefore takes too long to get enough to climb out of the Crime sinkhole. Once Criminal units like Scoundrels and above occur in game, you need a city designated to pump out the Police Units to have even a chance at keeping the Crime somewhat controlled. I truly believe you will find that you upper tier (scoundrel and above) Criminals are OP.

Without debating on whether those criminals are OP (which they aren't because they are measured against the strength of the equivalent LE units at the time) I must explain that it is not the techs that are giving a gap. I mean, it can't be... It has to be the buildings. They don't seem to understand the need to build the intermediate buildings that the prerequisite buildings for the age concurrent LE units also require. I'll have to remove, for example, the castle requirement for the guardhouse. There's nothing about the castle that suggests to the AI this is a path to Guards. I'm mystified by why they aren't building the Police Departments... Or perhaps they are having trouble fulfilling the resource requirements for the more modern units.

It's also possible that the criminal and strike team AI programming is too sinister for the AI to defend against and they're losing all their improvements to the efforts of these units sent in from other nations. This collapses the resource access which collapses the ability to train that which can respond. Or they might be falsely attacking themselves with their own criminals... that would be a possible bug.

By all means though, please review the xml for a possible flaw in the prereqs for LE units and for the buildings that they require.

Part of SO's game problem is he is using all the Combat Mods plus Outbreaks But also the Vanilla Combat system. That has to be causing problems as well.

The combat mods have nothing at all to do with it and neither would the vanilla combat system. Battle is not the issue. No relationship could even possibly exist there with the symptoms of this problem. Outbreaks is not ready for use so would be doing nothing right now but shutting down disease completely if it's on.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This is a little incorrect. There is a merchant ship type that is only given out for free and I can't remember offhand which one it is. It might be the one being discussed. As for where they return, that's why I asked 'after what' because the mission type matters. There may be one DH did but the primary mission for gold trade is in the dll and I recently did some stuff there - I need to look but I don't think I said to have it go to capital... maybe.

Then you must be talking about the Culture merchant ships that Sparth introduced with his Culture Modmod. And Not the Carrack line that upgrades as you get better ships. These are the ships that I and the AI in my save game are using. I have not seen a culture Merchant ship yet. Does not mean they are not there just none have come to my cities from the AI that I have OB pacts with.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Thanks for the clarification DH. I only really knew that you added it in. And so I made my statement based on that.

I was mostly pointing out where to look for the XML and Python as we have Orion Veteran's stuff in folders with his name.

This is a little incorrect. There is a merchant ship type that is only given out for free and I can't remember offhand which one it is. It might be the one being discussed. As for where they return, that's why I asked 'after what' because the mission type matters. There may be one DH did but the primary mission for gold trade is in the dll and I recently did some stuff there - I need to look but I don't think I said to have it go to capital... maybe.

The where it returns to is a function of the unit or Python. I think "return to capital" may be the default on units that specific missions. IE it is either in the mission or outcome XML.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Then you must be talking about the Culture merchant ships that Sparth introduced with his Culture Modmod. And Not the Carrack line that upgrades as you get better ships. These are the ships that I and the AI in my save game are using. I have not seen a culture Merchant ship yet. Does not mean they are not there just none have come to my cities from the AI that I have OB pacts with.

UNIT_MERCHANTFLEET appears to be the one I was recalling that doesn't have a build cost so is given to players through another means. (Not sure what means that is exactly though.)

UNIT_CARRACK_MERCHANT does have a build cost so you are correct on that. The XML that activates its mission is:

           <iBaseTrade>65</iBaseTrade>
           <iTradeMultiplier>3</iTradeMultiplier>

Which states to the DLL that it can perform a trade mission and if it does so, the parameters in which it operates.

Now... with that said, there COULD be some hidden python I don't know about but the amounts are working properly here. It looks like I need to take another look at the 'return to base' teleportation portion. If there is python on this, it should be eliminated because it could be causing a second 'teleportation' that would be not only unnecessary but incorrect.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Which states to the DLL that it can perform a trade mission and if it does so, the parameters in which it operates.

Which we discussed with Noriad2.

It looks like I need to take another look at the 'return to base' teleportation portion.

Agreed.

If there is python on this, it should be eliminated because it could be causing a second 'teleportation' that would be not only unnecessary but incorrect

I would be in favor of having to manually order the ship back to a port. But can the AI do this as well?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I would be in favor of having to manually order the ship back to a port. But can the AI do this as well?

I'm in favor of this too but it will take more extensive programming so I cut the project at an easier breakpoint. Part of it is AI. There's tracking of whether the boat is loaded or not and so on to consider.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The combat mods have nothing at all to do with it and neither would the vanilla combat system. Battle is not the issue. No relationship could even possibly exist there with the symptoms of this problem. Outbreaks is not ready for use so would be doing nothing right now but shutting down disease completely if it's on.

He has Outbreaks On. I was wondering why some of the cities were not reacting to some of the Disease and Air/water pollutions either.

Different tack here, but if you have the BUG choices checked to Hide Obsolete Units or Buildings, does the AI abide by this as well? If so, then this could be an explanation for the AI struggling to counter their Crime and disease problems. They can't go back and use the older to get to the newer. Players over the years have had this problem as well.

 

[Thunderbrd]

and Air/water pollutions

Shouldn't be making any difference with those.

Different tack here, but if you have the BUG choices checked to Hide Obsolete Units or Buildings, does the AI abide by this as well? If so, then this could be an explanation for the AI struggling to counter their Crime and disease problems. They can't go back and use the older to get to the newer. Players over the years have had this problem as well.

They won't build what they can replace regardless of how you check that option which only makes a difference to UI visibility of buildings that can be built. I think they won't anyhow. I'm sure right now in the state of complete collapse they won't tell how they got that way. They only show that they are in scrudland. At this point they probably can't train decent LE units because of resource access, most likely ammunition or something like that. But they may have HAD access to that and were up against another issue. Maybe this collapse has been coming for a long time because they couldn't overcome the castle trip-up in the earlier era. That and the fact that they are doing something extrastupid with crime units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, I needed to change trading units to being sent back to the city of origin instead. Of course for those who think they can now train their merchants and merchant ships on the border to get the fastest routing, they should be aware that the distance between city of origin and city where the mission is enacted does make a difference in how much gold is obtained by the mission. My next commit will have trade units going back to city of origin instead.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is the save, just attack with the stack near sao paulo. I've uploaded the version before the update as it might grant some insight, though the bug seem to be the same as after applying the update.

I figured out the problem here... got a little overzealous with a recent adjustment. Will be fixed on the next commit.

Another bug I noticed is that the gold income from priest and engineer seems to be off the scales. It claims to grant me +130/-125 actual gold for adding/removing a priest, while the number seem to be impossible. A priest shouldn't give me much more than 3-4 base gold (+0.75, +1 from civics +bonuses from religious), and even with all the multipliers, should be capped at somewhere around 10-15.

Are you sure you're not looking at 1.30 give or take? Is this what you're seeing on the Actual portion of the display? I need a screenshot of what you're looking at if that's not it. It looks fine on my end as I'm looking at it, even in your game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Early Workboat Builds Fixed and committed. See SVN Changelog Thread.

 

[Pit2015]

Bug since last SVN update: C2C - UEM - Ultimate Earth Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

 

[JosEPh_II]

Bug since last SVN update: C2C - UEM - Ultimate Earth Map 100% MOD and SVN update compatible by Pit2015

PM sent to dsma_bell.