Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Toffer90]

Well I'm asking what hes going to do with Team Project unique tag. [icreatepercent]

He's going to eat it.

Seriously though, projects are not a priority at the moment, and TB did answer your query in his last post.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Might promotion doesn't have ingame text.
There is placeholder txt_key_....

@Toffer90 Did you somehow correct this? I see where I made an incorrect adjustment but I'm not seeing this as a problem on my end so is this a local issue for Raxo?

 

[raxo2222]

Seems like building cost was fixed.
Saddler costs 98 hammers by default.
Normal/Settler - 51.
Normal/Noble - 65.
Normal/Deity - 98.
Eternity/Deity - 808.

Spoiler :

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer90 Did you somehow correct this? I see where I made an incorrect adjustment but I'm not seeing this as a problem on my end so is this a local issue for Raxo?

When you standardized the might promotions on the SVN in rev. 9859, I forgot to add the text for them to the interface modmod, so that's why he got a TXT_KEY error for those promos.
There was never a text key issue for those promos in core SVN.

 

[raxo2222]

@Toffer90 Did you somehow correct this? I see where I made an incorrect adjustment but I'm not seeing this as a problem on my end so is this a local issue for Raxo?

It got fixed now.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Man I love the smell of victory over bugs!

Whisperr is finding these last FPKs to take a hell of a long time. We hope to have them done by End of Day.

I think Noriad2 is right though, that we should just basically call from today on a deep freeze and playtest until the weekend and then package things up for an official release Friday day for weekend folks. This gives us time to work up changelogs and for me to fully edit the v38 player's guide (I've begun already if you haven't noticed.)

What say you, @strategyonly ? Release on Friday?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Upgrading units is now impossibly high see this post. https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...r-city-lost-units.627485/page-6#post-15022071

It's where I posted about upgrading a slinger in a snail GS Immortal game costing 417. The cost of upgrading that same slinger to archer is now 830. It doubled! SVN 9887 is current SVN for that game and this is 5 turns After a Re-Calc.

Now it's back to 417, which I guess I'll have to figure out why it's this high for Snail. Compare the cost for one of my normal games and see if the scale for # of turns needs re-adjusted. Cause even for Snail 417 to upgrade a slinger to archer in Ancient Era is way way too high. Imagine what it will be like when you want to upgrade a Composite bow to Longbow at this rate by early Med Era. well over 1000.Worse upgrade costs we have ever had in the Mod so far.

Imho something is still not right even after all this re-evaluation and re-mathing. And all because of LE units obsoleting way too soon and, again imhpo, a Percieved loophole exploit that was never proven to exist at all. Just theorized and extrapolated with questionable scenarios. But we will get it figured out sometime soon.

 

[Toffer90]

Now it's back to 417, which I guess I'll have to figure out why it's this high for Snail. Compare the cost for one of my normal games and see if the scale for # of turns needs re-adjusted. Cause even for Snail 417 to upgrade a slinger to archer in Ancient Era is way way too high. Imagine what it will be like when you want to upgrade a Composite bow to Longbow at this rate by early Med Era. well over 1000.Worse upgrade costs we have ever had in the Mod so far.

What difficulty are you playing? Difficulty now affect the hammer cost of units and buildings as per TB's new tags for handicap file.

Imho something is still not right even after all this re-evaluation and re-mathing. And all because of LE units obsoleting way too soon and, again imhpo, a Percieved loophole exploit that was never proven to exist at all. Just theorized and extrapolated with questionable scenarios. But we will get it figured out sometime soon.

This had nothing to do with LE units, it was a general issue with the math after TB added a new iConstructionPercent and iTrainPercent tag to handicaps file.

9885

• Adds iTrainPercent and iConstructPercent tags to HandicapInfos.xml and applied values to them to help balance out various handicap settings and a problem with discord in construction vs tech achievement rates. Initial settings are identical to the research handicap settings. Added to Nightmare Mode as well.

TB added those so that Building and unit cost is kept in line with research cost throughout the handicap levels, it does not address the issue of watchers being better than Police Mech.

 

[strategyonly]

Man I love the smell of victory over bugs!

Whisperr is finding these last FPKs to take a hell of a long time. We hope to have them done by End of Day.

I think Noriad2 is right though, that we should just basically call from today on a deep freeze and playtest until the weekend and then package things up for an official release Friday day for weekend folks. This gives us time to work up changelogs and for me to fully edit the v38 player's guide (I've begun already if you haven't noticed.)

What say you, @strategyonly ? Release on Friday?

could be, i was wrestling with those darn FPK's for about 5 hours and cant get them to work correctly, i hope someone else has better luck . . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

could be, i was wrestling with those darn FPK's for about 5 hours and cant get them to work correctly, i hope someone else has better luck . . .

We'll get them... it just takes a LONG LONG LONG time to do. I mean... wow.

 

[Harrier]

Haha, no problem.
Today I had an issue at work not much better- I accidently wrote "source - target" instead of "target - source" (coordinates). Took me a few hours to find that this was the root of the bug. These kind of things happen to everyone, I was just lucky to be a fresh pair of eyes to notice it.

In the later years of my IT career I was training experienced professional programmers (from companies we had sold machines to) how to write "Fault Tolerant" and "Multi-User" applications, On the course, they used which ever program language they new - that our computers supported (about 5 - including c but sadly not c++).

Quite a lot of the errors I had to help solve, were not with the new programming methods - but usually finger trouble.

 

[JosEPh_II]

What difficulty are you playing?

Immortal

This had nothing to do with LE units, it was a general issue with the math after TB added a new iConstructionPercent and iTrainPercent tag to handicaps file.

You are mixing 2 subjects together here. My post has nothing to do with the new tags and what I was talking about. Though the hubbub over the LEs did end up precipitating the new tags in a tangent way.

TB added those so that Building and unit cost is kept in line with research cost throughout the handicap levels, it does not address the issue of watchers being better than Police Mech.

Again Not what I was talking about. Though you can't seem to follow what I was talking about I guess and so lumped them together. Different subjects in different paragraphs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Immortal


You are mixing 2 subjects together here. My post has nothing to do with the new tags and what I was talking about. Though the hubbub over the LEs did end up precipitating the new tags in a tangent way.

Again Not what I was talking about. Though you can't seem to follow what I was talking about I guess and so lumped them together. Different subjects in different paragraphs.

To reduce the upgrade costs in gold, we must reduce the production costs of the unit. The difference between the unit production costs are what determine the upgrade gold expense. Given that you can convert production to gold, with the difference being unit production modifiers and other ways to adjust unit upgrade expenses as well, whether it's better to upgrade or train anew should always be something that varies with the situation and makes the player question which way to go. The amounts of XP on the units you have vs the ones you can now train should also play a big role in that decision. A lot comes down to how effectively you can hoard gold.

With era production modifiers in effect, with each era causing all production costs to evaluate at 10% higher than they were previous to entering the era, you may find the price of upgrade adjusts a bit when crossing into a new era.

So are you saying that you suspect unit upgrade costs are out of whack from their production costs somehow? I can't say exactly how the calculation may have changed a particular circumstance exactly without doing a lot of math. But I CAN say that the global modifier on all production costs was reduced by 20% overall and the amount of increase for Immortal went up by about the same amount but the hierarchy of calculations was brought to be basically identical to the tech research cost calculations. That might have adjusted things in slightly unexpected ways since, like technologies, previous to this, all modifiers had a hierarchy but now most modifiers aren't more powerful than another.

As you pointed out during that set of adjustments, Game Speed needed to be the most important factor, and at this point, for construction and training, it is, and in exactly the same way as it is for technologies. Are units seeming more or less expensive in your game now to train? Are buildings more or less expensive to build? With the cumulative era adjustments being halved, I'd think they'd both be a lot cheaper now if you're significantly into the game. Maybe not so much for gold to upgrade.

 

[Raledon]

The production rate in diety-nightmare (normal, large map) feels out of whack still.
I've had a pretty good start (3 hammer tile and caves). After building one of the caves wonders,and rushing stone tool maker, it's already 40650BC.
I've already discovered theft, and the general feeling is that most of the buildings will be obsolete by the time they start returning their interest later in the game.
It feels like research has been hastened a few SVN patches ago, and now production is slower, causing it to be extremely out of sync.

 

[raxo2222]

The production rate in diety-nightmare (normal, large map) feels out of whack still.
I've had a pretty good start (3 hammer tile and caves). After building one of the caves wonders,and rushing stone tool maker, it's already 40650BC.
I've already discovered theft, and the general feeling is that most of the buildings will be obsolete by the time they start returning their interest later in the game.
It feels like research has been hastened a few SVN patches ago, and now production is slower, causing it to be extremely out of sync.

Well Nightmare Deity has <iConstructPercent>225</iConstructPercent>, where Deity itself has only 150.

To reduce the upgrade costs in gold, we must reduce the production costs of the unit. The difference between the unit production costs are what determine the upgrade gold expense. Given that you can convert production to gold, with the difference being unit production modifiers and other ways to adjust unit upgrade expenses as well, whether it's better to upgrade or train anew should always be something that varies with the situation and makes the player question which way to go. The amounts of XP on the units you have vs the ones you can now train should also play a big role in that decision. A lot comes down to how effectively you can hoard gold.

With era production modifiers in effect, with each era causing all production costs to evaluate at 10% higher than they were previous to entering the era, you may find the price of upgrade adjusts a bit when crossing into a new era.

So are you saying that you suspect unit upgrade costs are out of whack from their production costs somehow? I can't say exactly how the calculation may have changed a particular circumstance exactly without doing a lot of math. But I CAN say that the global modifier on all production costs was reduced by 20% overall and the amount of increase for Immortal went up by about the same amount but the hierarchy of calculations was brought to be basically identical to the tech research cost calculations. That might have adjusted things in slightly unexpected ways since, like technologies, previous to this, all modifiers had a hierarchy but now most modifiers aren't more powerful than another.

As you pointed out during that set of adjustments, Game Speed needed to be the most important factor, and at this point, for construction and training, it is, and in exactly the same way as it is for technologies. Are units seeming more or less expensive in your game now to train? Are buildings more or less expensive to build? With the cumulative era adjustments being halved, I'd think they'd both be a lot cheaper now if you're significantly into the game. Maybe not so much for gold to upgrade.

I looked at modiki.
If unit upgrade cost (iUnitUpgrade) is calculated only from base unit cost and global upgrade cost modifier (global defines), then this means slowest speeds, largest maps and lowest difficulties have easiest time with unit upgrades.
Someone on Normal/Standard/Deity may struggle with unit upgrade costs.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Are units seeming more or less expensive in your game now to train? Are buildings more or less expensive to build?

Both are more expensive across the board.

With the cumulative era adjustments being halved, I'd think they'd both be a lot cheaper now if you're significantly into the game. Maybe not so much for gold to upgrade.

Not so. Sorry but to say, "I'd think" with out checking is just assuming. And you Know what that gets you.

 

[JosEPh_II]

It feels like research has been hastened a few SVN patches ago, and now production is slower, causing it to be extremely out of sync.

Research on Normal Just recently got back to a semblance of what it used to be. And I agree that production is now longer and slower. Thus the disconnect between the 2.

But that's the way balance goes. I get it set and then new ideas are chased and boom discord again. It is what it is. Today's change is...............

 

[Toffer90]

You are mixing 2 subjects together here. My post has nothing to do with the new tags and what I was talking about. Though the hubbub over the LEs did end up precipitating the new tags in a tangent way.

Again Not what I was talking about. Though you can't seem to follow what I was talking about I guess and so lumped them together. Different subjects in different paragraphs.

Gold cost to upgrade units has everything to do with unit hammer cost.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Gold cost to upgrade has everything to do with unit hammer cost.

The only thing done to address LE units in the last week is to change the ForceObsolete to a regular Obsolete and to restrict LE promotions by the era the unit belong to. Has nothing to do with building and unit cost so you are the one who are mixing subjects together.

I know what I wrote and I saw how you responded. I'm not going to argue over this with you so just stop. I know exactly what was done and why and when. Again stop. Please.

 

[Toffer90]

Now it's back to 417, which I guess I'll have to figure out why it's this high for Snail. Compare the cost for one of my normal games and see if the scale for # of turns needs re-adjusted. Cause even for Snail 417 to upgrade a slinger to archer in Ancient Era is way way too high. Imagine what it will be like when you want to upgrade a Composite bow to Longbow at this rate by early Med Era. well over 1000.Worse upgrade costs we have ever had in the Mod so far.

Imho something is still not right even after all this re-evaluation and re-mathing. And all because of LE units obsoleting way too soon and, again imhpo, a Percieved loophole exploit that was never proven to exist at all. Just theorized and extrapolated with questionable scenarios. But we will get it figured out sometime soon.

So you are saying that the green part is completely disconnected with the rest of your post. It is not strange that I got confused and thought that the green part was a comment related to the rest of the post.