Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Myth of Phoenix (was working fine last November when I stopped working on C2C for a break)

Has someone changed the way the animal pseudo national wonders work? I know that it was being worked on. The idea was to replace the need for the pseudo wonders and their effect buildings. It is possible that the work has started but is not yet complete hence the bug. I don't want to put it back the way it was if this is the case. It is the only one of the local myths that I have noticed the problem with. The Dragon works fine, I think, now I am not sure because I did not have a spare one for this city. I think I was able to build both in my capital where the Myth of the Bird is built.

Turns out in vanilla BtS I could just use that tag that C2C ignores to achieve the same thing.​

Reefs (all types)

Reefs are supposed to stop almost all ships that pass through and do some damage. They should have a movement penalty of about 10.

The Beacon (movement cost is 4) and Lighthouse (movement cost is 1) improvements reduce the movement penalty but since improvements can't change the movement cost we replace the reef with a new terrain feature that does eg reef with beacon.

Sea animals are supposed to be immune to the damage from reefs but I have noticed in this game that they are being damaged.​

Ocean Currents

As far as I know we don't have any features on the ocean terrains and I just recently watched a world building video where the hard maths associated with generating this is explained in a way that looks fairly simple to implement. Not only that it would allow us to identify hot and cold ones. These currents don't go on the continental shelf. If we had the graphics we could add them to the maps​

 

[Thunderbrd]

Reefs are supposed to stop almost all ships that pass through and do some damage.

In RL, since when can you not kayak through reefs just fine? Having them be forced to stop and be injured there really breaks immersion and is very irritating. Besides, it's a nice benefit to these boats as explorers to be able to get through them without a problem. Obviously, the animals often there are problematic if they stop you there for a fight, which often happens on H&S.

The change that took place is that features add to movement costs for the plot rather than replace it and thus so too does double movement abilities halve the cost of the whole plot if the feature or terrain that the double movement applies to is on that plot. Halves again if the unit has double move for both the feature and the terrain.

I believe that coasts are supposed to have 2 base move but then all wooden ships get double moves through coast so that may calculate out in such a way that we have rafts getting 2 movement on a coast - they certainly would if you've circumnavigated. They don't have any special ability to get through reefs as rafts though. Or they shouldn't.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

In RL, since when can you not kayak through reefs just fine?

What world do you live on? Some maybe. Others it would be better to get out and carry it over, if you have good shoes.

If you are changing what reefs are all about then the beacon and lighthouse improvements are no longer needed so they and the terrain features can be removed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If you are changing what reefs are all about then the beacon and lighthouse improvements are no longer needed so they and the terrain features can be removed.

I think they should be damaging and slowing to all other ships, just not those early two that glide between rocks and over reefs (coral is all I have grown up using the term reef to mean) without danger to the ship unless they tarry in that spot. Unless you're in heavy waves and weather being smashed up against rocks, you can get through almost anything in a kayak without any damage to the ship. They get down river rapids just fine. And catamarans are pretty close to as maneuverable.

 

[tmv]

There's nothing in the statement of the term Either that says if both are true then the evaluation is false. It just means if one or the other is true.

'If Either A or B '

simply means if A is true or B is true, even if both A and B are true.

What about https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/either/or ?

 

[Thunderbrd]

What about https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/either/or ?

In the case of the above statement the choice is unavoidable in that it must be at least one or the other but it cannot be neither. Either one can qualify.

 

[raxo2222]

@Toffer90 it seems like months/days are never displayed even at Long speed in 1800 AD - 2200 AD time fame.

I added test scenario with nothing in it so turns go as fast as possible.

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer90 it seems like months/days are never displayed even at Long speed in 1800 AD - 2200 AD time fame.

I added test scenario with nothing in it so turns go as fast as possible.

That's because you have PPIO installed, be glad I allow you to have the date display at all in my modmod. ^^

 

[raxo2222]

That's because you have PPIO installed, be glad I allow you to have the date display at all in my modmod. ^^

Oh, I thought it was same as in C2C itself.

That is I didn't knew PPIO doesn't display months/days at all.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

That is I didn't knew PPIO doesn't display months/days at all.

I prefer it that way to be honest.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The dates are just a reference point and should never be taken as set in stone. Even though I worked hard on getting the "dates' to line up with GS play there was always going to be a variance. That's why I always referred to them as a "range" that you Should achieve a new era.

All this New monkeying with the dates just menas playes will now have to find for themselves the date reference point that means something to them.

I have been thru a time with aother Mod where Dates were removed. That did not last long either. The player outcry was overwhelmingly against not showing any Date. Afforess did it early in AND2 while I was part of that team. He had "good" reasons for not showing any dates. But again the players did Not like any of them.

Toffer can go down that path in his Modmod if he wishes. But I suspect in the long run he too would acquiesce to player demands.

Right now we have players "*itching" cause it does not line up perfectly or a tech does not match the date in game in History. These are just the minefields the modder goes thru and puts up with to satisfy the masses. Been there and done that as they say.

 

[raxo2222]

Those dates are based on tech tree structure now, so for example date is "1900 AD", then tech leader should be close to or just recently reached Modern era.
This means if tech leader roughly researches tech per two turns on Normal, then eras should roughly agree with reference points.
I didn't made any compromises to make round timescale steps.

That is on 2000 turn long game (Normal) end of tech tree should be reached by tech leader at 2000th turn roughly.
Or on Long game modern era should be reached before 2000th turn and Medieval somewhere at 1000th turn by tech leader.

On Emperor and higher levels AI is usually tech leader. Tech leader shouldn't be in Modern era at 25% of game.
Units of all types are ~30% cheaper for everyone if you play with Size Matters.

 

[tmv]

Those dates are based on tech tree structure now, so for example date is "1900 AD", then tech leader should be close to or just recently reached Modern era.

Only if you think people in history never made mistakes. As soon as there are mistakes that you aren't forced to make yourself (like certain "Dark Ages", not to mention times when a breakthrough happened at most once per millennium) doing better than history should be possible.

 

[raxo2222]

Only if you think people in history never made mistakes. As soon as there are mistakes that you aren't forced to make yourself (like certain "Dark Ages", not to mention times when a breakthrough happened at most once per millennium) doing better than history should be possible.

Doing better than history is now way too easy.
Too fast tech progression means you might have not enough time to get buildings/units.
This is other reason as to why I remade calendar - so reference points come naturally (that is no need to change how fast you get techs per era after era infos get calibrated) and era duration is roughly proportional to amount of techs (with beelining factored in).

 

[JosEPh_II]

Repeatable EoT CTD. Updated to SVN 10386 this morning. Been playing on and off all day. Then 1st CTD just happened 10-15 minutes ago. reload from last autosave, replayed turn and again CTD at EoT.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Only if you think people in history never made mistakes. As soon as there are mistakes that you aren't forced to make yourself (like certain "Dark Ages", not to mention times when a breakthrough happened at most once per millennium) doing better than history should be possible.

Real World dating is a measuring stick. It's not to say people on real world Earth never made mistakes but to say this should be the average rate of achievement.

Doing better than history is now way too easy.
Too fast tech progression means you might have not enough time to get buildings/units.
This is other reason as to why I remade calendar - so reference points come naturally (that is no need to change how fast you get techs per era after era infos get calibrated) and era duration is roughly proportional to amount of techs (with beelining factored in).

Part of the problem we're finding is that the research boosts from buildings are a bit too high. We can continue to adjust the costs but research benefits from buildings scale up a lot higher than many other commerces and yields. The amounts we're seeing from things like all the MANY labs are just curve breaking. That's one factor to consider as well.

Repeatable EoT CTD. Updated to SVN 10386 this morning. Been playing on and off all day. Then 1st CTD just happened 10-15 minutes ago. reload from last autosave, replayed turn and again CTD at EoT.

I'll fix this as soon as possible. Thank you. We don't find many of these these days.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'll fix this as soon as possible. Thank you. We don't find many of these these days.

If it can be fixed that would be super. Every fix is one more off the list.

EDIT: I kept running EoT and no luck. Then I got a wild hair and did a Re-Calc. before I clicked the red button. The turn then processed. The Re-Clac reset a value somewhere that then allowed the process to finish. Go figure!

 

[Thunderbrd]

If it can be fixed that would be super. Every fix is one more off the list.

EDIT: I kept running EoT and no luck. Then I got a wild hair and did a Re-Calc. before I clicked the red button. The turn then processed. The Re-Clac reset a value somewhere that then allowed the process to finish. Go figure!

Repeatables are usually pretty easy to solve and are often very nice to find and correct because they might be pointing to other more generic problems that can mean NON repeatable crash points as well.

 

[tmv]

Real World dating is a measuring stick. It's not to say people on real world Earth never made mistakes but to say this should be the average rate of achievement.

Yes, I know. But now this aspect seems to have a little too high priority - to the point where you shouldn't outdo history even if you research techs in a different order.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, I know. But now this aspect seems to have a little too high priority - to the point where you shouldn't outdo history even if you research techs in a different order.

I think you might be misunderstanding the purpose of some recent adjustments. The dating adjustments are to help place the techs in the right order as we have some chronological inconsistencies in the tree that need to be addressed. On another somewhat related topic, tech cost increases by era have been taking place due to testing showing that the turn counts to achieve techs are dropping farther and farther as the game progresses. This isn't so much about the calendar as about a game balance factor. Raxxo is also trying to space out the calendar time lengths to better match with how long it takes to achieve the techs in the era. This way it won't feel so discordant from realism when you're reaching eras in the game a bit closer to the dates in RL - but that's really of the least important goals in these three efforts because we know that different options will always throw that off for individual games. Still - is nice to at least be in the ballpark and reaching the Modern Age in BC is not even remotely close.