Slavery Reparations: Is it time?

[emzie]

It's reasonable to assume that blacks receive more welfare, direct or indirect, per capita than whites. I doubt blacks receive more in absolute terms since there still are a lot more whites.

Which merely reflects history.

But the whole topic is a strawman. Welfare has always been about stabilization of the poorest class and maintaining a minimum standard of living within a country. It's never been a reparations-based system, or, despite what someone might say, a class warfare system. Sure, there are social justice types who might argue in favour of that, but welfare as a whole has never actually operated as such.

Hypothetically, let's say reparations were paid out to slave descendants. To collect welfare against that would be inherently racist, as you're treating blacks differently based on what they've collected. So to answer the hypothetical with "reparations -welfare collected" is disgusting.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'll be honest, I don't get the logic of this at all. Even setting aside the fact that, as been observed, nobody living has ever owned slaves, how many people in the United States even have slave-owners among their ancestors? Say you've got some Irish chap in Boston, can't trace his ancestry in the continent back further than 1850; even if we accept the logic of culpability-by-descent, what exactly is he culpable for? A pig that his great-great-great-grandfather nicked in Offaly?

 

[amadeus]

Which merely reflects history.

Yes, but not all of that history can be tied to slavery. That said, I'm not trying to argue that welfare is (or can be) a substitute for reparations.

I'll be honest, I don't get the logic of this at all. Even setting aside the fact that, as been observed, nobody living has ever owned slaves, how many people in the United States even have slave-owners among their ancestors? Say you've got some Irish chap in Boston, can't trace his ancestry in the continent back further than 1850; even if we accept the logic of culpability-by-descent, what exactly is he culpable for? A pig that his great-great-great-grandfather nicked in Offaly?

The idea of returning the stolen property is full of logistical problems. Do "pure" blacks, descended entirely from slave families with no interracial mixing receive more than blacks who had some white ancestry?

What if a mixed-race couple of a slave-descended black and a white adopt a child? Since the child will be raised in a household with a parent who may have been historically disadvantaged by slavery, does the child get reparations, and how much?

 

[downtown]

It's reasonable to assume that blacks receive more welfare, direct or indirect, per capita than whites. I doubt blacks receive more in absolute terms since there still are a lot more whites.

I think that depends entirely on how we define welfare. If we limit that definition to food stamps and unemployment, then I suppose that's probable...but "govt assistance" is more than that.

 

[emzie]

I think that depends entirely on how we define welfare. If we limit that definition to food stamps and unemployment, then I suppose that's probable...but "govt assistance" is more than that.

Hey, paying farmers to not grow crops so that other farmers might sell their crops for more is totally not welfare.

 

[NovaKart]

I'm against reparation but I think the point would be that the money would come from the US government, which allowed slavery, it's not really meant to penalize white people.

 

[kramerfan86]

Reparations make little sense. The descendants of families who never had slaves should pay up? Even worse, the decedents of abolitionists or those who fought for civil rights should pay up? Or if this comes from taxes you are talking about other minorities paying up for it since its their tax dollars too. Nothing about the idea makes any sense.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Paying reparations would be a form of slavery for the people who have to pay them.

 

[FriendlyFire]

It's nonsense. Everyone who suffered because of slavery and everyone who took part in the system that sustained it is long dead. It's history, period.

(just for the lulz, I'd offer to pay "reparations" to any black American willing to move 'back' to Africa and never return - how many would take such an offer I wonder )

How about "reparations" by Indians to white people to go back to Europe and never come back I wonder ?

 

[Godwynn]

Southerners should give us Northerners reparations for the lives we lost civilizing them.

 

[amadeus]

I think that depends entirely on how we define welfare. If we limit that definition to food stamps and unemployment, then I suppose that's probable...but "govt assistance" is more than that.

You're right, I wasn't counting things like the military-industrial complex and government employee salaries.

I'm against reparation but I think the point would be that the money would come from the US government, which allowed slavery, it's not really meant to penalize white people.

Where would the government get that money?

 

[Godwynn]

Where would the government get that money?

Definitely not from the poor welfare states that had slavery.

 

[amadeus]

Definitely not from the poor welfare states that had slavery.

It sounds like the continued occupation of their land has not reaped the economic benefits that were promised by the war hawks.

 

[Narz]

While we're at it lets all kill ourselves & give the US back to the Natives.

Past-based policies are not what the world needs now. We need to create a sustainable future for all & make it so the uber-wealthy cannot hoard their capital. Racial stuff like this is merely divisive.

 

[amadeus]

We need to ... make it so the uber-wealthy cannot hoard their capital.

Hoarding is the opposite of what capitalists do.

 

[DJ Bonebraker]

Hoarding is the opposite of what capitalists do.

You're quite right: what greedy capitalists do is get poor suckers to buy in on their dodgy investment schemes, put super-fine print in that makes them sole owner of the investments, buys off congress to re-write regulatory rules in their favor and then dumps the worthless investments on their "clients" while laughing all the way to their Swiss bank.

....Or at least that's what many did during the run-up to the current economic mess, but I digress.

About the main topic: I think the idea of "slavery reparations" is just plain wrong: First of all, the Civil War happened 150 years ago, as has been said many times, and everyone who was or owned slaves, or whose parents were or owned slaves is dead and gone.

My personal take is that my family (both sides) paid the price for slavery in blood (my mom's family is from down south and one of my dad's ancestors was in the 17th Pennsylvania Cavalry and won a Medal of Honor for turning a Confederate ambush on his unit into a Confederate rout by charging up to the front line of their infantry formation and stealing their flag).

I think that we need to get past the whole race and slavery issue and concentrate on the REAL cause of inequality: Greedy corporate executives screwing the little guy over and buying off the crooks in congress so the law will guarantee that they can KEEP screwing the little guy over: In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the current racial tensions are deliberately being stoked by the ultra-rich in order to keep the poor people fighting each other instead of the REAL enemy!

 

[tonberry]

Hitchens's case for the reparation of slavery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MNu2GNx-kQ

The part at 8:26 is, in my opinion, the most important. There are millions of dollars in the treasure department that was made from the labor of slaves. That money belong to the descendant of those slaves.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Subconsciously, yes, I think people associate welfare with black people. Hence why there's talk of subtracting welfare received from any reparations payment.

Really?

I always associated welfare with rednecks for some reason.

 

[Crezth]

Without wading in too deep here, I want to point out the wretched irony inherent in the West's plunder of the entire rest of the world followed sharply by "Hey, woah woah woah, that was our ancestors! We definitely don't owe our current prosperity to their actions! Asking us to pay anything to anyone is unfair!"

 

[GamezRule]

1. It's likely that the majority of the United States populations ancestry does not even go back to the Civil War. In other words, the money would mostly come from people who's ancestors that had nothing to do with it.

2. Reparations are not the way forward. Equality for all. Instead of dwelling on the past, we should focus on creating equal opportunities for future success for all citizens. It's really the only way forward that will get us anywhere.