So what is really going on in Iraq?

Status
Not open for further replies.
FriendlyFire said:
I download the video with the short clip of WP being deployed from the helicopter. It cant be hellfireround given there slow decent and almost gental trajectory.

EDIT: yeap I had the hellfire conflused with dumbfire hydra missle pods which is why your post was so confusing.
I throught that hellfire missles were expensive and normally reserved for high priority targets ?


It is in fact a flare that was dropped from the helicopter (?) correctlty identified. By this time its position has already changed as it fires the first cluster of WP (?) followed by a second and a third. At no time was the helicopter illumated by its own flare.

attachment.php


attachment.php


Unforunity the video footage is low resolution:
images are at 200% optimised jpg 60%

EDIT: hmm why are my attachments not showing ?

Ok, now that I see these pictures I dont think it was a helicopter at all. See the three specific puffs of smoke and then a smaller puff of smoke below those three in the 2nd picture? Thats most likely three illumination rounds going off in quick succession. In general, anything that falls gently and slowly to the ground is an illum round, not a missle or bomb falling into the target. Anything slow and gentle will allow the enemy to get out of the way, but illum rounds by nature must be slow and gentle as to provide the maximum amount of illumination before the round hits the ground. Also, I dont think this was WP either. If this were WP burning as it was falling, it would be creating a virtual crapload of smoke as it came down. So much so that it would obsure the individual contrails...but that is not the case here - you can still see the contrails.

Most likely this is three illum rounds being fired from a mortar crew or arty battery somewhere.

BIG EDIT: Ok, I found out what this was by doing a bit of research. It is indeed artillery and NOT a helicopter. The round being used is this: the M825 155mm Arty round. Here is a description with a picture in the link that is very close to what FF has posted here. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/smoke.htm So basically, what you are seeing are small wedges of felt burning WP as they fall down slowly. They would certainly provide illumination as they fell. I would have thought more smoke would have been produced on the way down, but the example photo from globalsecurity is pretty close to what you see here. Smoke is being used in conjunction with 155mm HE rounds to kill and disorient the enemy just prior to the gound troops going in. Also, if it were meant to use WP as an inciendary device vs people its not a very effective one. A lot of the WP is burned up on the way down. If the intent was to use WP as a burning agent vs people the other WP round would have been used, as it puts WP directly on the target upon impact (which in turn isnt a very efficient incendiary device either). But that does not look like the case here.

Once again, this is certainly not a helicopter "spraying" WP all over the place.
 
Ah

i stand corrected: No helicopter

WP was used that is not being disputed: The marine veterans who posted strongly disagreed with what it was being used for. The news report claimed wp was used like a chemical burning agent (they use the term WMD).

Iam more or less convienced WP wasnt used in an indiscrimate fashion.
 
FriendlyFire said:
Ah

i stand corrected: No helicopter

WP was used that is not being disputed: The marine veterans who posted strongly disagreed with what it was being used for. The news report claimed wp was used like a chemical burning agent (they use the term WMD).

Iam more or less convienced WP wasnt used in an indiscrimate fashion.

Good, glad I was able to shed some light on it

@ Neomega.....found those black helicopters spewing that WP/WMD all over yet? Heh, the silence is deafening.:lol:
 
Neomega said:
You have a tell. You are bluffing. Your secret documents certainly do not show enough evidence to support any movement of the WMD's. All bluster and fluff. Call it arrogant or whatever, but I would definitely bet everything I had 20:1 against you if we were at a poker table, because there is no doubt in my mind you are bluffing, and your secret documents contain nothing of the sort that you claim. The hand you had was too weak to start with.

I never bluff, but I'm at a big disadvantage here as I can not show you any information because it is classified. All I can hope for is that in 20 years, it'll be declassified for all to ponder. Until then, I'm on a fool's errand to try to talk any sense into any war protesters... :(
 
Mano3 said:
I never bluff, but I'm at a big disadvantage here as I can not show you any information because it is classified. All I can hope for is that in 20 years, it'll be declassified for all to ponder. Until then, I'm on a fool's errand to try to talk any sense into any war protesters... :(

Just being a devil's advocate here Mano3 and I am not on Neomegas side at all...but....whats to be gained by your stating this?

I mean, why mention you have classified information that you cant share with the rest of us as proof. As a fellow NCO, I mean to me thats kind of silly. It's rather close to the fanatics that say Area 51 does hold alien information, but we cant prove it just wait till its declassifed.

I would have just never brought it up myself.
 
^Just the question I was about to ask MobBoss. Mano, why torture yourself? Time heals all wounds...
 
Mano3 said:
I never bluff, but I'm at a big disadvantage here as I can not show you any information because it is classified. All I can hope for is that in 20 years, it'll be declassified for all to ponder. Until then, I'm on a fool's errand to try to talk any sense into any war protesters... :(

Oh man, yup, I gave you one piece of ad hominem bait, and you took it. You are far more predictable and transparent than you seem to believe.

You are bluffing, I know you are bluffing, and I am not going to tell you how I know you are bluffing, because I hope if you ever try your "secret clearance Info" junk anywhere else, you'll make the same mistake and give it away that you are indeed bluffing about what you know.
 
Mano3 said:
I never bluff, but I'm at a big disadvantage here as I can not show you any information because it is classified. All I can hope for is that in 20 years, it'll be declassified for all to ponder. Until then, I'm on a fool's errand to try to talk any sense into any war protesters... :(

well call you DEEPCFC, blow the story to media, make a movie and when you about 80years old you can come our reveal yourself and write a book about it.
:goodjob:

Given the quality of intell the US has been using lately iam pretty sure they wont be able to figure it out. DEEPCFC :lol:
 
MobBoss said:
Just being a devil's advocate here Mano3 and I am not on Neomegas side at all...but....whats to be gained by your stating this?

I mean, why mention you have classified information that you cant share with the rest of us as proof. As a fellow NCO, I mean to me thats kind of silly. It's rather close to the fanatics that say Area 51 does hold alien information, but we cant prove it just wait till its declassifed.

I would have just never brought it up myself.


Just trying to let folks know that it's not as bad over there as the media makes things out to be. Wasn't thinking about the fact that some folks would not believe me. :sad: But... I know I'm right and I can't wait for the future. :D
 
Neomega said:
Oh man, yup, I gave you one piece of ad hominem bait, and you took it. You are far more predictable and transparent than you seem to believe.

You are bluffing, I know you are bluffing, and I am not going to tell you how I know you are bluffing, because I hope if you ever try your "secret clearance Info" junk anywhere else, you'll make the same mistake and give it away that you are indeed bluffing about what you know.


Sorry Neo, but your crystal ball is broken. Just wait for the future and and we'll talk again. ;)
 
I see you've downgraded your top-secret information to being about things simply being better in Iraq than the media tells us. I wasn't aware talking about the positive side of things in Iraq was actually illegal, but hey...
 
Gibsie said:
I see you've downgraded your top-secret information to being about things simply being better in Iraq than the media tells us. I wasn't aware talking about the positive side of things in Iraq was actually illegal, but hey...
Surely there are many positive things that aren't reported. Why would you tell your enemy positive intelligence you've learned about them? Loose lips sink ships. ;)
 
Mano3 said:
Just trying to let folks know that it's not as bad over there as the media makes things out to be. Wasn't thinking about the fact that some folks would not believe me. :sad: But... I know I'm right and I can't wait for the future. :D

Thats encouraging. However you must bear in mind in the future that we are dealing with quite the cynical audience here.

I mean, they are more apt to believe black helicopters spewing WP and tales of US troops commiting genocide as opposed to anything remotely resembling the truth especially if it equates to any good news out of Iraq.:lol:

Keep up the good work!:goodjob:
 
MobBoss said:
Thats encouraging. However you must bear in mind in the future that we are dealing with quite the cynical audience here.
And being cynical about our government is a bad thing?

Anyway, I will say as much as I experience schaddenfreude every time something bad happens to the Bush Administration, I really, really hope that things work out in Iraq (by hook or by crook).
 
SomethingWitty said:
Just so we're all clear.

The Pentagon has confessed that they used WP as an anti-personnel weapon. Not a nite-lite.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm


Just so we are all clear:

though not against civilians

Col Venable told the BBC's PM radio programme that the US army used white phosphorus incendiary munitions "primarily as obscurants, for smokescreens or target marking in some cases.

It is not "outlawed or illegal", Col Venable said.

"The combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about by the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so that you can kill them with high explosives," he said.

Just so we are clear. Nothing illegal was ever done and no one has ever denied that WP was not used. Its not a chemical weapon and is used primarily in creating smoke. It is used in shells fired from artillery and not carried by attack helicopters. Just so we are clear.
 
MobBoss said:
Just so we are clear. Nothing illegal was ever done and no one has ever denied that WP was not used. Its not a chemical weapon and is used primarily in creating smoke. It is used in shells fired from artillery and not carried by attack helicopters. Just so we are clear.

Ahhh so its fired from artillery,well that makes it better.If I wanted to be killed by WP I would preffer it was fired from artillery,instead of the 'flying devils'.

Question for military experts on this thread:Isnt there shells that are just for creating smoke?Or is it WP is cost effective that you could burn people with it and create smoke at the same time?
 
Cleric said:
Ahhh so its fired from artillery,well that makes it better.If I wanted to be killed by WP I would preffer it was fired from artillery,instead of the 'flying devils'.

Question for military experts on this thread:Isnt there shells that are just for creating smoke?Or is it WP is cost effective that you could burn people with it and create smoke at the same time?

Go to wiki and look it up. Ounce for ounce WP is the most effective smoke agent in the world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom