Some people like Greece

Let's hope you're not a writer like Anne Frank.



Indeed not. Greece has to pay back all of these bailout loans, on top of it's existing debt, while tightening its' purse strings, cutting jobs, and reducing salaries and benefits. I wonder at your optimism...

Anne Frank was not even a writer, just a teenage girl ;)

And i am by nature optimistic, hard times show which people can march onwards, but i think most will survive this crisis. At worst we are looking at a reactionary government forming, which will erase the debt taking us out of the Eurozone (but not the European union). Otherwise there will have to be renegotiations.
 
If the Olympics caused countries to fall apart at the seams, surely Australia and China should be completely and utterly screwed as well?
:rolleyes:

You're not thinking this through. Of course it doesn't cause the country to fall apart, but it could be a cause of part of the problem.

The Olympic Games are Big Business. When Vancouver had the Winter Games, there were a lot of people displaced, and they were rightfully furious. There were instances of "where did the money go?". Construction projects were started, stalled, and got into trouble. They even remade part of a freakin' mountain highway from Vancouver to Whistler to please the IOC! Now I don't live in British Columbia, but I've seen in the newsfeeds how upset and angry the people are who were affected by all this. I'm sure the tourists came and had a wonderful time, and BC will reap some reward of repeat business.

However, this doesn't help the people who got screwed over. And the Olympic Games also creates debt to the host country and city. HUGE. Just ask Montreal. Or any of the host cities that had to pay for all that extra security since 9/11.

All I'm asking is if Greece's problems now were caused in part - IN PART - by the huge expenditure of money they'd have had to pay for the privilege of hosting the Olympics. 'Cause it's not cheap - not for any country.
 
AFAIK the expenditure for the olympic games (which were overpaid, as usual) was a tiny fraction of the GNP. GNP was at 1/4 trillion dollars at the time.
 
Was there any social unrest before/during the Olympics? Any people displaced from their homes? Any businesses adversely affected by traffic problems, areas cordoned off, new construction, etc.? All these things can contribute to a country's monetary problems and lead to people protesting - it happened in Vancouver.
 
One can make a reasonable argument that by offering solutions to the Greek problem, even tough love solutions, it means they care enough about Greece to bother to try to help them find a way out of their mess. Very few people care about the problems of Somalia or Yemen, or a dozen other places with terrible problems. You can like Greece as a place, like Greek people personally, but still point out where they are royally screwing the pooch.
 
If things do go bottom up, the entire country is welcome to come here and open restaurants.
 
spoiler added

Yeah...Greece is so quaint. I have no idea what's not to like.

Those German flags that are being publicly burned in Greece these days... you don't happen to know where those are made, do you?
Cause if the German flags burned in Greece are made in China... that would be ironic...
 
I like Greece, but hate the people living there.
 
spoiler added

Yeah...Greece is so quaint. I have no idea what's not to like.

Those German flags that are being publicly burned in Greece these days... you don't happen to know where those are made, do you?
Cause if the German flags burned in Greece are made in China... that would be ironic...

We here in Portugal would be happy to export german flags to Greece for them to burn. Provided they paid in advance, of course.

But someone negotiated on behalf of the EU and end to any tariffs on imported asian textile products, sinking most of the EU's textile industry in the process. Apparently it was a trade for the opening of markets to other potential european exports there, like machinery. And someone also insisted on valuing the Euro above most other currencies and prevent any devaluation whatsoever.

I guess we should be burning German flags too. And the Italians should too. And, eventually, were the Euro to survive 5 more years, the french...
 
We here in Portugal would be happy to export german flags to Greece for them to burn. Provided they paid in advance, of course.

But someone negotiated on behalf of the EU and end to any tariffs on imported asian textile products, sinking most of the EU's textile industry in the process. Apparently it was a trade for the opening of markets to other potential european exports there, like machinery. And someone also insisted on valuing the Euro above most other currencies and prevent any devaluation whatsoever.


And the UK government supported the Germans because it was stupid enough
to think that with Germany's assistance Asia would merrily open up their
markets to financial services and the UK could run on financial services alone.

This followed UK government foot in mouth activities including lobbying for the
removal of the restriction on adding milk into chocolate (it reduces the cost,
but made the lactose intolerant Chinese ill) and for going soft on a Pakistani
opium smuggler (merely because he had conned a UK woman to gain citizenship).

Fortunately for the Chinese, their government had the sense not to go along.
 
BBC has an interesting article I can't leave unquoted:

The most immediate predecessor to the EMU was the 19th Century Latin Monetary Union, which attempted to unify several European currencies at a time when most circulating coins were still made of gold or silver.

It came into being in August 1866; its initial members were France, Belgium, Italy and Switzerland, and they agreed that their national currencies should be standardised and interchangeable. There was no shared, single legal tender, but the currencies of the member countries were pegged at a fixed rate with each other.

Two years later, the four founding nations were joined by Spain and Greece and in 1889 the union was further enlarged by admitting Romania, Bulgaria, Venezuela, Serbia and San Marino.

(...)

Ever since it gained its hard-fought independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1832, Greece has been plagued by recurrent budget crises, frequent state defaults and long periods during which it's effectively been cut off from the international capital markets.

So while it was one of the earliest nations to join the Latin Monetary Union, its membership soon became more a cause of concern than celebration, for its chronically weak economy meant successive Greek governments responded by decreasing the amount of gold in their coins, thereby debasing their currency in relation to those of other nations in the union and in violation of the original agreement.

So irresponsible and unacceptable did Greece's behaviour become that it was formally expelled from the Latin Monetary Union in 1908. As a result, some effort was made to readjust the nation's monetary policy and Greece was readmitted to the Union two years later.

(...)

It's an intriguing historical irony that among the pioneers of these endeavours seem to have been none other than the ancient Greeks.

One of the earliest examples of such a union occurred sometime about 400BC, along the western coast of Asia Minor, where seven Greek states allied themselves and produced a coinage that directly foreshadowed later European monetary unions. On the front of the coins was a common design of the baby Heracles strangling a snake, and the first three letters of the Greek word for alliance. On the reverse, each state placed its own particular image. All these coins were minted to the same weight and formed a unified currency, which was the tangible symbol of the seven members' economic alliance.

No-one quite knows why or when this early effort at a monetary union collapsed but 200 years later, the ancient Greeks had another try, organised through what was known as the Achaean League, an alliance of territories and city states covering the whole of the Peloponnese that had been formed about 280BC.

Once again, their shared currency had a common obverse design, in this case the head of Zeus, and reverse patterns that were specific to the individual issuing authority.

The result, according to the historian Polybius, was that the Greeks "had not only formed an allied and friendly community but they have the same laws, weights, measures and coinage, as well as the same officials, council and courts of justice". Here was a level of integration, which the most ardent and ambitious Eurocrat of today might envy and this may help explain why, unlike the Latin or the Scandinavian monetary unions, the Achaean League lasted for well over 100 years.

Its eventual dissolution, in 146BC, was not because the members of the league fell out with each other, over the currency or anything else but was the result of an external shock in the form of a crushing military defeat by the Romans at the Battle of Corinth. Which leaves us with the following paradox: the ancient Greeks were pioneers of monetary unions and were quite eager to keep them in being.

Modern Greece, by contrast, has been a threat and a danger to any monetary union that it has ever joined.

:D
 
hey europe, you guys should call in the experts, we have experience in rebuilding continents

506px-US-MarshallPlanAid-Logo.svg.png
 
hey europe, you guys should call in the experts, we have experience in rebuilding continents
We'll gladly take your money. Thanks.
 
Does the US still have money?

I was under the impression that the dollar is just a worthless piece of paper that's being printed by the trillions these days, but everybody keeps pretending that it is valuable because if it wasn't, Armageddon would come and we'd all die.
 
I'm very much unaware of (and frankly bored by) anything financial, but when the Euro was introduced wasn't it's value on par with America's?
 
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