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ST2 - Prussian Pangaea

Yea, I agree RCP is mechanical. But the production boost is sweet. Placing Leipzig on the hill would have been 6.5 for example. If anyone wants to post a preference I will use it. For now I'll set Cattle city at 6 tiles (thats the BG orthagonaly) and the rest at 4.

Edit............got it
 
The production boost of ICS is also sweet. So is the benefit of setting up a Right of Passage sucker punch. If you rip the soul out of the game and play by formula, min/maxing every statistic, exploiting every design flaw, what is the use of playing? :)

- Sirian
 
Thats why we play. For fun and diversity. If every game can come down to a simplistic formula of every city builds X and every city is found Y tiles away and the build ques could be lined up from here on out why would we play?

I almost understand the players that want to push the limits of the game and try to see just how hard you can squeeze the game mechanics to pull out every shield, gold and food you can but isn't it just as much fun to play varients and see how things unfold without having a mechanical approach.

Some would say that you (meaning me and other players) are being hippocritical because "You have to research pottery, you have to get a settler factory, you have to have a worker factory. etc etc." Well maybe. There are plenty of things in the game that are used to the players advantage and I think that knowing how to MM, define a set research strategy and how to use the terrain as it is laid out in front of you is the most enjoyable part of the game. I know not everyone can use ICS or RCP to the fullest but if you just look to do it because it will eliminate corruption then why bother having terrain be any different if the terrain doesn't matter?
 
2110 BC - 0
change Leizig to a worker.
Arabia is active in the F4 screen and is down IW.

Trade France 4gpt, 20g for IW. Trade Arabia IW, 1gpt and 15g for HBR. Start on Masonary.

2070 Bc - 1
Archer defends against Barb horse.

IBT: Joanne demands I leave, I do.

2030 BC - 2
Worker starts irrigation at Leipzig.

1990 BC - 3
Berlin builds a settler, starts another.

1050 BC - 4
Leipzig builds worker starts a settler.

1910 BC - 5
Direct settler/archer/warrior to cow. Find a barb camp. Warrior scout wanders into Arabian territory.

IBT: Arabia asks I leave, I move next turn.

1870 - 6
Elite archer defeats barb camp.

1830 BC - 7
Hamburg settled beside cattle, starts a worker. Settled at 6 tiles but not for RCP reasons. A barb appears in the NW.

1790 BC - 8
Berlin builds a settler, starts a warrior.
No escort for this guy and Joanne is starting to settle toward us.

1750 BC - 9
Archer defeats barb and they are becoming more active.

1725 BC - 10
Our settler meets Joannes settler.



http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ST2_1725BC.SAV
 
I would agree with that. Sadly the programming has become exposed. I can still balance commerce, production, science and corruption with terrain in mind however. Perhaps better knowing more about corruption. :)
 
Hmm. I would've wanted Hamburg NE of the cow rather than NW, because that provides for better spacing for other cities between it and the capital. As it stands, we have one row of unused tiles. About the best we can do to salvage that is N or NE of the incense for the west end, but there aren't any good places for the east end since getting that settler on the river there will in some combination end up wasting 4-5 land tiles within first-ring distance, and that's really bad for a small map.

Plus I have a feeling that French settler is going to plop down right there, which will really screw up our plans. Well, we'll make do somehow. I've got it but probably won't get to play it until Monday night; will attend to a good dotmap then.

And Berlin's got to swap to military right now to fend off those barbs. Furthermore, the city is too small right now; we want to keep it at sizes 4-6 for better shield output for military between settlers. I'll attend to this too. :)
 
I am sorry about that. It was not intentional. My heart is just not in it. Civ has somehow become frustrating. I'm off this forum for a few days. Please skip me if I do not report in.
 
OK. As promised, Berlin swaps to military, though I didn't realize it does have two warriors already right now. Still, though, I want the city larger before building settlers, so it swaps to an archer.

Why're we doing a minimum science run on Masonry, of all things? Cheap tech, and everyone else has it already. France wants for it... yikes, World Map. France, England, and Persia already have Map Making (it's 1725 BC, folks!).

Well, trade the map while we can. WM + 6g to France for Alphabet. WM to England for 38g (full value.) WM + 44g to Persia for Writing.

I'd LOVE to buy and resell Map Making, but there's no way we can afford it. Minimum research changed to the more useful, more expensive, not-around-yet, and can-wait-32-turns-for-it Literature.

----------

Between turns, the French settler plops down as expected :( and the two barbarian horses move up next to our archer on the hill.

1700 BC: Our settler moves on to the north to try and claim some sort of decent land. Our archer and one warrior pulled from Berlin kill the two barb horses. Doh, Elizabeth got Literature. A minimum gambit isn't going to get us any other tech first now, so I just keep it on Lit.

Lizzie then demands TM + 20g; paid! And she sends a settler pair towards the iron. And completes the Oracle.

1650 BC: Catherine and Arabia got Map Making but haven't gotten the world map. We trade our map to Arabia for Mysticism + 9 gold, and to Russia for 39g + TM. I got the cash instead of a tech so that we can buy Literature to resell. Literature from France for 72g + 2/turn. Unfortunately we can't get Map Making for it, but we can resell Lit to Arabia for Masonry + 7g + TM. And, cool, Russia's got Mathematics; Lit plus 2/turn gets us that.

Four techs for the price of one plus our map. :goodjob: Research set to minimum on Currency; I pick that because Mathematics probably hasn't been around for too long but Mysticism (before Polytheism) has.

1600 BC: Russia's got Construction :eek: We lose an elite warrior to a barb horse. Persia completes the Pyramids.

1575 BC: We lose a veteran archer to a barb horse without scratching it. :aargh:

1550 BC: France completes the Great Library. Moscow cascades and completes the Great Wall (they're faaaar away from us and we won't be attacking them before Metallurgy anyway.)

1500 BC: Berlin's borders expand to pop the hut and we get maps.

----------

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/st2-1500bc.zip

Dotmap to follow.


Here's a dotmap. I am completely ignoring considerations of RCP.



Red dot is where our current settler is. An English settler blew right past here going west a few turns ago; I don't know why (did a barb kill it?) but we'll take that iron and silks! We have Literature so have this city build a cheap library for expansion.

I do not think it wise to compete for any more spots towards France. The pink dot over there indicates a current French city; there are no tiles in the area not within 3-tile distance of at least two rival cities (except that ONE mountain three south of Warwick).

Follow the rainbow (stealing from Arathorn). Orange is where it is to fit with adjoining cities, and it's first because it's safe from barbs now. Yellow and green are next as barbarians permit (let's all hope that archer can frag the barb camp under that horse.) Blue and purple are tentative based on the terrain in the area. The greys are for when we can get there; the warrior at the eastern one (fortify him there) should block the AI from settling it indefinitely.

Also fortify the southern warrior where he is; that will neatly supervise that entire area against barbs leaving Hamburg 100% safe (Avignon is covering the tiles over that way that our warrior isn't.)

Berlin could swap to settler now because orange dot is safe from barbs. If it doesn't build a spear now, have it do that next to escort the next settler to yellow or green.
 
1500 BC (0): Decide to let the spear complete in Berlin. Swapping to settler now would drop the city back to size 2. The extra spear in Berlin will let me drop the lux next turn as well.

1475 BC (1): Berlin Builds a spear starts a settler. Found Konisberg in the north near the silks and the iron (red dot). Start a worker but will want a library soon to claim the silks. I can only buy Philosophy from the others for 22gold, 4gpt and WM. I don't think it is enough to buy MapMaking from the Arabs so I hold off. Liepzig is now at size 3 so I have to keep lux at 20%. Decide to change Leipzig from a settler to a granary that will be whipped shortly.

1450 BC (2): Elite archer kills the barb horse but 1 still remains. Still can't afford anything more than Philospohy. Hamburg gets a scientist for 2 turns before the worker completes. NO MPs means rioting at size 2. Lux would have to go to high. Drop research to 0%. With the Mod we actually get more science witht a 3 beaker Scientist than running at 10%. :hmm: Not sure what that really means though.

1425 BC (3): Frag the camp with the 3/5 archer but it was close. Only 1hp remains. With the extra 25 gold I can buy Code of Laws. Joanie as expected is the cheapest. CoL for 51 gold, 5gpt and WM. CoL, 3 gpt, 3 gold and WM to Arabs for Map Making.

1400 BC (4): Hamburg builds a worker starts a granary. Lux dropped to 10%. Sell our maps.

1375 BC (5): Berlin build a settler starts a spear. Persia just picked up Currency. Arabs grabbed Construction. Advisor claims there are tribes near Leipzig.

1350 BC (6): Settler arrives at Orange Dot.

1325 BC (7): Found Frankfurt in the South on the river SW of the hills. Start a barracks.

1300 BC (8): Berlin builds spear starts archer. Warrior at Leipzig kills advancing barb and promotes. Send Berlin Arch north to attend to the barbs.

1275 BC (9): The ages has changed and massive uprisings are near Berlin :(. Cathy and the X-man are the only 2 in the Middle Ages. But they are the only Scientific AI as well :eek:.

1250 BC (10): 16 Horses sit in the Mountains near our lonely elite archer. Cathy starts SunZu. Rather than kill 1 horse and hope to survive the onslaught I push the archer further West. Hoping to draw the horses out from Berlin. Opted for a scientist in Leipzig rather than upping lux to 20%. Drop Research to 0%. All this can be changed. Also the Granary can be whipped for 2 citizens right now. Joanie is now in the Middle ages. We are still 16 turns from Currency. Hamburg gets a taxman to avoid riots it needs an MP.

Here is the save:

http://civfanatics.net/uploads4/st2-1250bc.zip
 
OK, that would be back around to JMB now. Good turns; hopefully we can fend off those barbarians without taking too much more damage. Middle Ages in 1250 BC; yikes - though it's still slower than the Democracy games. :)

I'd probably partial-whip the granary at Liepzig via a 40-shield library, and keep lux as high as we need to keep everyone working. Food and shields are invaluable at this stage of the game even at the cost of 10 gold income. We should be completing our road connections sometime soon and getting some of our luxuries hooked up which will alleviate that situation.
 
The roads are almost all connected. I am not sure if the barbs will follow our archer. I think they may still b-line for the undefended town of Hamburg. There is a warrior in the area and another archer is about to be built.

Our economy sucks but a few gpt deals will end in about 5 turns IIRC and help out a bit. I was also getting 1 gold from each civ for WMs each turn. I think that is the only reason we arent worse off. I may have over payed for CoL but was able to grab maps with it. The Arabs are not too much better off tech wise than us and their economy is worse. We may still be able to pull off 2 fers with them.

Getting a couple new lux on in the next few rounds, incence and spice, will help with the happiness issues. The worker in the Northern town can be swapped to a library.

I haven't really had a chance to think about the implication of the 3 beaker scientist of the 2 gold taxman :hmm:.

Hotrod
 
Nice turns T-hawk and Hotrod! I see it and will try to get to it sometime this afternoon/evening...

JMB
 
Do we haev the option of opening up a honeypot city for the barbarian horsemen, or do we want to try and slug it out with them ?

Grimjack
 
1250 - Things are looking good... I swap Berlin from an archer to another spearman. Leipzig has 36 shields to go on its granary. I consider partially rushing it like T-hawk suggested, but I am loath to 'waste' 5 shields... So, the next leader should whip the granary to completion in 16 turns. IBT, the barbs beeline towards the undefended Frankfurt.

1225 - Berlin begins a settler. IBT, the English destroy the barb camp our elite archer was going to attack. Our elite archer is then just about killed by a barb warrior (the archer is at 2/5 hp). Sensing the wounded prey, all of the barb horsemen turn around and take off towards the archer (this is rather annoying as I wanted them to ransack Frankfurt before they became a danger to our upcoming settler). The French begin Sun Tzu's.

1200 - Our injured archer hides in the mountains, trying to lure the horsemen farther from our homeland. Move our worker outside Hamburg to speed the granary via a forest chop (rather than irrigate the cattle. Hamburg is currently unhappy and isn't going to grow anytime soon; lux's would have to be raised to 50% to get the second citizen working... We really need to hook up our luxuries!). MM Leipzig for zero growth (it would take 30-40% luxuries to put everyone to work) and we will now get the granary in 17 turns (we are making 2 spt). This means that we can whip the city in 7 turns... IBT, the barb horsemen move back towards Frankfurt.

1175 - Nothing much. IBT, ok, this is getting ridiculous (and annoying...) The barb horsemen turn around again... (I decided to fortify the archer on a hill when I saw that the horsemen weren't pursuing it anymore)

1150 - Nothing much. IBT, the English warrior kills a horseman, but dies to the next one... The rest of the horsemen move back towards Frankfurt.

1125 - I send our settler W with a two spearman escort. Ok, the deals with Joanie and Cathy have expired, so I'll see what we can do this turn... Things are still rather expensive, so I'll wait another turn as we aren't in any danger (yet) of barb pillaging. IBT, the barbs advance on Frankfurt.

1100 - Time to make a deal... Ok Abu got currency last turn (which he didn't have last turn). Alright, our WM to Joanie (the only person we can afford to buy from...), 40 gold, and 7 gpt (our entire income per turn) for Polytheism. Next I purchase Joanie's TM for 13 gold. Well, we could get Philosophy, 1 gold, and the Arab TM for Polytheism, but I think I'll hold off on that trade for a bit as the Abu only has 1 gold and is researching at max. Currency is due in 10 turns. IBT, the barbs assault Frankfurt and our work on its barracks is destroyed.

1075 - Our northern warrior decides to try his hand at barb fragging and nets himself 25 gold! (that is much better than my typical barb luck...). We manage to get Persia's TM for our WM and 28 gold. IBT, we lose a spearman to a barb horse.

1050 - We found Munich. IBT, nothing.

1025 - Whip the granary in Leipzig. Leipzig should produce a worker next. WM trading... We can now get Philosophy and 1 gold from Abu for Polytheism. He is still making 0 gpt, so I think we can still afford to wait a little while before we have to sell it to him (of course, then again, maybe we shouldn't chance it...). Our elite archer should be able to take out the 1 hp barb horse next turn. I think we should send a worker to the hills south of Frankfurt to hook up our spices soon.

Once Munich reaches size 2, whip it to complete the library (which will bring the game tile into range). We should be able to to rush the granary in Hamburg in 14 turns (the chop will complete in 4 turns bringing the number of tiles required to 30). We will also be able to whip the library in Konigsberg in 12 turns (will bring in the silks), but then again, looking at things, we could also swap to a harbor and then whip its completion in 2 turns (perhaps opening up trade routes with the other AIs that would take much longer to open up if we wait for roads...). Also, let's send our next spearman (once the damaged barb horseman is finished off, we could send our spearman in Munich to do this) along with an archer and try our luck at popping a few huts in our western lands (if the English warrior doesn't get them all first...)

Here's the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ST2-1025BC.zip

Good luck Grimjack!

JMB

PS - for some reason, I think the turns are still off... Shouldn't we be at 1050 BC?
 
We can now get Philosophy and 1 gold from Abu for Polytheism.

WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR?! Since when do we pull half a brokerage, and sit around twiddling our thumbs instead of completing it? It's not like we're denying him access to a wonder or unit by withholding the tech, and there's no way Polytheism is going to get us more tech than Philosophy (the only other available ones we lack are Construction and Currency which are far more expensive.) And of course Philosophy gets us access to all-important Republic to see brokerage deals and/or start minimum research on it ourselves. Refusing a brokerage in hopes of spare change is :smoke: :smoke: [pimp] [pimp]! You're lucky he held out this long without getting Polytheism from another source.

I don't mean to rant at you, but I have no idea what you were trying to do there. :)

Other than that particular crack-induced hallucination, good turns. :goodjob: Keep those workers a-workin'!

Konigsberg: I'd focus on expansion for the silks and iron first, then a harbor for trade routes. Trade routes don't do us much good when we don't have anything to trade. :)

Grimjack << UP NOW
[Open Slot] << On Deck
 
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