ST2 - Prussian Pangaea

Grimjack,

I think you should go ahead and make whatever decision you want/think is best and play out the rest of your turns... ;) :D I think we can handle whatever the AI decides to do...

Re: Stealing vs purchasing... Do you think we meet the conditions T-hawk enumerated several pages back? If so, then go for the tech steal (if we have a spy planted, try to diplomatically steal first, that way, we can still attempt a steal with our spy...).

Anyways, good luck with the rest of your turns.

JMB
 
@Grimjack: I'm up in LK53 and won't get to this game until tomorrow.
So if you have spare time, you could play the rest of the turns, otherwise I will take it. I had a quick look at the save, but forgot to look at the research-costs at max.
If it would take too long, I would also try to steal next turn. While we are in no position for an offensive war, we should be able to defend ourselves well enough.
Additional, there is a fair chance that France doesn't declare war after a failed attempt.
 
The reason for getting radio at once would have been to get a monopoly on our free tech.

We have some 20 turns left on a single scientist. I do not know how long it would take to research at max.

I just assumed price for Radio would be the same as price for Motorized, since both techs were monopoly techs.

In four turns France is likely to have researched one of the Modern techs, since they have all of Persias income as well as their own. ( I strongly suspect.)

I will try to play the next four turns during lunch-break in a few hours.

Grimjack
 
I think you know, just to be sure: Amph. is a required tech in this mod, do we have it already?
 
Ooo, thanks Belisar. Had totally forgotten that one. Then there is no immediate rush for Radio.
*blush*

Will see about researching it.

Grimjack
 
Took the chicken way out, and played quietly, building strength.

After a reality check, I 'discover' that Amphibious Assault is a needed tech now. I will see what I can do techwise then. It is no rush stealing radio. However, Joannie has monopoly on both Radio and Amphibious.

IBT: Nooo, I managed to produce a regular Panzer. Hurriedly order up a barracks so as not to repeat this mistake.
Bonn Bank->Stock Exchange, Bremen Bank->Barracks, Heidelberg -> Courthouse.

1220 Rush Docks in Stuttgart.
Sell Flight to Arabia for 130 gold and 40 gpt.
Persia may have threatened Motorized from France, as he now has that.

IBT: Bremen Barracks->police station, Stuttgart Docks-> Exchange,

1230 Deal with pollution, Rush Stock exchange in Bonn,

IBT: The stream of french infantry traipsing through our lands, reached the english border in the north, and promptly turned back again. They are now on their way back, one step at a time. Bonn Gets its exchange, and start on docks. Oooo, scary, we lose our supply of Saltpeter. Hope we didn't break any deals doing so.

1240 Rush Stock Exchange in Stuttgart.

IBT: Deals with France expire. I do not renew them.
Berlin riots of course, and I use scroll ahead to switch on clows, and change production to better match. Will fix after I set lux in 1250. Stuttgart finishes its Stock exchange, and I set it on a temple placeholder. May be hospitol, but it will only give a couple of more tiles workable.

1250AD Set lux at 10% so as not to leave off with entertainers online. Next player will decide if we go with lux and the ability to make war, or if we should continue peaceful space race, in which case it may be best to buy in some luxes somewhere.
We can skim worker out of Frankfurt after this Panzer if we want to.
We can get Amphibious war from France or Persia, Radio is only from France.
If we want to steal, we have money for two careful steals, and one immediate. We can quickly get more money, since income is at 800 gpt ( and that is with 10% lux tax which may not be necessary if we buy luxes instead. )
I have parked our Panzers on a mountaintop, and that is probably all I drove with them :)

Workers are parked on the grasslands far from the front, and Infantry are a bit everywhere, mainly keeping high ground.

Grimjack

Save Here
 
Got it.
 
Preturn: Some of our cities are size 19 (I think that's OK, since
I will be killed by T-Hawk only if one of it reaches 22 :D)

To prevent this some MM: Rearange tiles in Konigsberg to max shield, stop growth at size 19.
No matter what I try, I can't get Berlin to 100 spt
because Hannover needs one tile to stay at the current size, building a unit
every other turn and Munich needs another to stay at 100 spt.
Nuremberg is at 110 spt, too much for Panzers.
I give one tile to Munich, allowing me to rearange the tiles in Berlin.
Now I can give to former-Berlin tiles to Frankfurt, mine a grassland
and voila: Frankfurt's shield output is raised from 66 to 80 spt, one art. every turn
(same in Berlin, we don't have enough anyway).

We steal RADIO from France :D,
saving us a lot of money (France is still the only one who has it).
Radio to Persia for Amph. and 43 gpt.
Atomic Th. to Arabs for some gpt and all his gold, also to England for 101 gold
(Could have got additional 17 gpt, but didn't want to risk a ruined rep. for a few gpt).
We enter the Modern Age, :D our free tech is Computer, Xerxes got Fission.

Early turns:
Persia declares war on France. Interesting.
Maybe we can use this to our advantage.

France now has Fission, good. That's breaking Xerxes monopol.
She has nothing to offer for Computers,
so Computers to Xerxes for Fission, all his gpt (324) and all his cash (only 38).
We have a source of Uranium near Leipzig :D
The only visible French source is near Avignon. If we go for a limited war, we may deny
Uranium to France, which would be very useful.
Damned pollution at Frankfurt prevents the every-turn art. this turn.
Our income is now 1080 gpt.

I build mainly Panzers and Artillery in the core, two Stocks and two police
stations in second-ring cities (Two of them remain to be rushed).
Next leader will have to decide if we want labs,
but with our huge shield-otput they can be built quickly anyway.

Late turns:
I plant a spy in France and in Persia, maybe helpfull.
The French offensive army is weak, we could strike now.
But I'm an old warmonger and the team has decided to go peacefully
so I will hand over the decision to T-Hawk.
Continued building Panzers, upgraded almost all of our Infantry to MI.

Persia is now in Monarchy. I stopped after 8 turns. We are prepared for a limited war
against France. We would gain a second source of Uranium (their only one),
First and second ring cities (a few settlers are also ready), cripple one
of the remaining opponents permanently and start our GA.
I didn't sell Computers to France because of the technical advantage the MIs will
give us and also because she never had more than ~45 gpt available.
I didn't buy here luxes, which we could in the case of a peacefull game.
Our wokers are grouped in 3 stacks covered by MI, 1-2 pollutions per turn on average.

I'm a teamplayer and this is T-Hawk's game.
If we really don't want a war against weakened France (still at war with Persia)
we could go for the 'Hotrod-plan', triggering our GA against England.
Either way, our army is at a reasonable strength to handle different cases, giving
T-Hawk several options. :)

Belisar

SAVE
 
We can get the Golden Age via the Manhattan Project (combined with ToE) or by the Internet, remembering that Miniaturization is now required for space. No need for a war for the GA.

Going against mechs without modern armors isn't fun - it takes on the order of 50 to 100 artillery shots to redline a city, and even a redlined mech in a metropolis can kill tanks. The movement of Panzers doesn't matter against mechs since the artillery will be the limiting factor anyway.

We do indeed appear to have a short window right now with France still lacking mechs, but such a healthy civ will get Computers from somewhere before much longer. She's temporarily behind only because she isn't scientific while we and Persia are. I'd say no war until modern armors, at least - and by now we may as well just go for space since the idea to test the military mods kinda fizzled. :) Frankly, I think this game is now a great chance to try out the modded space race against some healthy, large AI competition (although our GA will make it little of a contest.) Sirian, if you're watching, got any opinions on what you'd like to see here?

I see it, but have LK52 to get through as well, although this one is easier so I'll probably do it first. Will play tonight or tomorrow.
 
Wonders: I didn't start SETI yet because I thought in the case of a peacefull game we would like to delay our GA for the hot stage of the space raze, but we can build it quickly by rearanging Nuremberg for max shields.

War/Peace: The main reason why I handed the game over after 8 turns is that we only have a small window to use Panzers against infantry (maybe 4-6 turns). This should be enough to cripple France, IF we want it.
I'm Ok with the peaceful route as well, just wanted to give you more than one option, and
we needed a stroger army anyway.
 
[/lurking]

It looks like you guys have this one well in hand. Good job! :goodjob:

Could have got additional 17 gpt, but didn't want to risk a ruined rep. for a few gpt.

I believe that being in the midst of receiving unilateral gpt payments/luxuries/resources from a civ that dies does not stain one's reputation. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[lurking]
 
Reagan: you're right. Also, even paying gpt to a civ that dies doesn't seem to stain your reputation; only resource deals do. I think that happens because the game actually processes it as: Civ X loses capital - No trade route available between player and Civ X - Player broke resource deal - reputation is ruined - now we check for the elimination of Civ X.

Belisar - SETI won't get us our GA - we need a militaristic wonder to go with ToE. I got confused on that point when writing the post but then fixed it. :)
 
The only Militaristic wonder left is Manhattan Correct? Either way we should go for the internet anyway for some free Rlabs.

The question is now do we be-line for MA's?

Where are we on our UN? Or did I miss a post that disabled diplo wins?
 
Didn't have time to play tonight after LK52, but I peeked at the save.

Ye gods, am I torn. On the one hand, this is a godly setup for Panzers (which I've actually never yet used) - we've got 40 of them and a soft neighbor (Germany vs France :lol: ) which will be torn apart by their speed.

On the other hand, France is indeed on the verge of getting Computers - right now if I offer her the tech she does not offer all she has for it (she withholds Ivory) so we'd have about two turns of blitzing before mechs. Also, I'd have more fun running a competitive space race than a foregone military conclusion, and that has more value as a mod test as well.

So, what do you guys want to do? :tank: or space?
 
Being that LK52 was a late age military battle that I may not see again but had fun playing, I say go for space. It is a true test of the mod. The tweaks Sirian put in IRC were mostly the industrial age units, rifles, troopers, marines etc. We will not be using any of them here and Panzers vs. Infantry is almost a fair fight :lol: but I don't think they have been modded. I will have to check it out but I think space with the "new" requirements is the the way to go.
 
I am also lacking in space victories. The lure of getting a conquest win has been too much for me in most of my games.

Could be interesting with a space race in a tight game. ( And as you say, it is a test game. )

Diplomatic would be ours I suspect, if we got the wonder, but it is not very satisfying to win that way I think.

Grimjack

So, in conclusion, in case my mumblings are incomprehensible,
Vote 1: SPace Race, closely followed by
Vote 2: Panzer race.... ( Just because I have never really gotten to use Panzers. )
 
I say we go for space, but as I am not likely to be able to play again, my vote doesn't really count...

JMB
 
Victory goal: I'm fine with space. Since I almost always win militaristic, some alternation is a good thing.
Sorry if I was wrong on the gpt/reputation thing, good to know :rolleyes:

EDIT: @Grimjack: Diplo win is disabled.
 
OK, well, as discussed, that stack of military does look tempting, but I'll pack it away for another day.

Nuremburg swaps to SETI to prebuild for the Internet. Berlin swaps to the Manhattan Project to actually prebuild SETI there. Everywhere else swaps to research labs, and we start max research on Miniaturization. Import two luxuries from France so we can go to 0% luxuries and 100% science.

==========

Little happens. Arabia and then Persia demand luxuries, which we pay. France did get Computers about four turns into my run.

Internet built in 1335 AD for the Golden Age. Several Offshore Platforms built as well. Nuremburg is producing a ludicrous 198 shields (awww, just short of a battleship every turn). Pity it can't build a nuclear plant, but it could build a Manufacturing Plant before the Golden Age ends for 231 shields/turn.

Miniaturization traded to Persia for Rocketry + 83/turn and to France for more cash. Berlin builds SETI.

Two turns of research done on Nuclear Power, four to go. I think we may as well beeline Robotics (whee, radar artillery! OK, and manufacturing plants) and see if some AIs can research Ecology or Space Flight.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/st2-1350ad.zip
 
Nuremburg is an amazing site :D
Do we have Alum. ?

Different topic: It was much too tempting, I played a few turns after I uploaded the save. Now that France already got Computers, is it considered a spoiler if I insert a link with a screenshot, showing the situation in 1295, after the first war-turn? :mischief:
Just for interested lurkers? :D
 
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