Stop complaining about units being big.

[HamaticBabylon]

When I look at the new screenshots like this one:

I have the feeling the units are big when you zoom in and look around. When you are looking at the game from a classic top-down or angled perspective we will have the same overview as we always had.

Units are big relative to the houses and trees just like any other civ. (in civ 1 a unit would be so that you couldnt see the terrain at all) And you wouldnt want your swordsmen to be hidden in a forest.....

I guess it will take some time to get used to and to understand how the grid works.

You are absolutely right, those crazy maniacs are just plain wrong.

 

[warpstorm]

Imonstrous task

Based on what I know, I think it would take about 15 minutes to do this. Total. Hardly monstrous.

 

[weakciv]

*** sarchastic comment to come ***

I want my units to be small enough to climb up in the trees. That way they can be hidden when an enemy unit passes by. Even better, they should be allowed to try to enter the same square as I am because they can't see me. Bingo! An ambush!. That way I get to be the aggressor on someone elses turn.

*** sarchasim overwith ***

 

[ironduck]

Then, don't zoom in

This is probably how I'm going to be playing it

My point is that as I've mentioned several times, going 3D gives wonderful opportunities for creating a new immersive dimension. And judging from the zoomed in graphics they blew that.

If the units scaled relative to the zoomed view, we would have a crippled view in zoom out (Infinitly more useful than zoom-in).

How would that possibly cripple the zoomed out view? If the units scale relative to zoom level they will be big (like now) zoomed out, which is what they have been in all civ games and would continue to be. But when you zoom in they would blend in more nicely as they would become smaller relative to the map. Zoomed out would look exactly the same as it does now.

I don't see how units having the same scale as all the previous Civ-games broke the game. It's a gameplay choice and until now, it has always been an appropriate one.

I never complained about units being big zoomed out. My complaint is that the modeling is poor and inconsistent, which is visible zoomed in. This is the opportunity they wasted going 3D. As I've said many times in this thread, it looks ok zoomed out, it's just a shame it looks so poor zoomed in.

 

[ironduck]

Based on what I know, I think it would take about 15 minutes to do this. Total. Hardly monstrous.

Have you even read what I wrote? You quote half the sentence which makes no sense! Allow me to quote myself.

changing all the graphics is a monstrous task

Feel free to try changing all the 3D models in Civ4 in 15 minutes. At what point did it escape you that I'm complaining about the shoddy modeling? I've only described it about half a dozen times now.

 

[Supa]

How would that possibly cripple the zoomed out view? If the units scale relative to zoom level they will be big (like now) zoomed out, which is what they have been in all civ games and would continue to be. But when you zoom in they would blend in more nicely as they would become smaller relative to the map. Zoomed out would look exactly the same as it does now.

Like you said it, I understood you wanted the units to have the same size whatever the zoom used. An unit 'measuring' 50x50 pixels at zoom 1 would still be 50x50 pixels at zoom 2 or at zoom 0.5. I may have misunderstood, but if not, with a zoom out the map will be unreadable with all the units still at 50x50.

I never complained about units being big zoomed out. My complaint is that the modeling is poor and inconsistent, which is visible zoomed in. This is the opportunity they wasted going 3D. As I've said many times in this thread, it looks ok zoomed out, it's just a shame it looks so poor zoomed in.

Yes, the modeling is rather poor. It's probably an performance issue, isn't it ? Having to display 50 low polygon models is faster than 50 high polygon models.

 

[ironduck]

Like you said it, I understood you wanted the units to have the same size whatever the zoom used. An unit 'measuring' 50x50 pixels at zoom 1 would still be 50x50 pixels at zoom 2 or at zoom 0.5. I may have misunderstood, but if not, with a zoom out the map will be unreadable with all the units still at 50x50.

Maybe I wasn't explaining it well enough. I'm basically talking about unit size relative to zoom level. When zoomed out the units would be the size they are in civ3 (say, about twice the height of a city). When zoomed in they would perhaps be half the height of a city. They would obviously still be giants, but I think it would look less silly somehow. Of course it creates other issues (such as the need for them to move further when they're smaller relative to terrain zoomed in, and the need to be elevated above cities when they guard them (or, maybe they should simply stand outside instead of on top of the city as they do now)).

Yes, the modeling is rather poor. It's probably an performance issue, isn't it ? Having to display 50 low polygon models is faster than 50 high polygon models.

I'm happy with civ not being super demanding technically, it's a strategy game and should be perfectly playable on normal computers. But within the engine and allotted polygon count it's possible to create much better looking graphics. Good graphics are primarily a matter of good artists with enough time, not technical issues. Of course things can't look super realistic with 50 polygons, but they can look good when modeled well. Most of these graphics are not modeled well at all, they have poor textures, and they don't fit together in their styles. It's just a mess to look at.

All I'm saying is that I think it's a shame they didn't put higher priority to getting good artists with enough time to create consistent, well-made art. I was very excited about the ability to zoom in and get a feel for all the details that happen, but it just looks poor to me the way they made it.

 

[ironduck]

Here's an example of the poor modeling I'm talking about: It doesn't have to be this ugly. And why are the wonders tiny? The Giza pyramid is smaller than the houses! As is the Colloseum! I can assure Firaxis that these are enormous constructions and not something that looks like a bird dropping next to a clay house.

http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=467&c=2

 

[Supa]

Yes, you're right. Graphics are nothing fabulous. Yet again, they seem to do their job at a normal level of zoom. Personnaly, I'm not chocked or sad.. but I didn't have the game in the hands. I think we could only juge of the righteous of the choices when we'll have it.

 

[ironduck]

But Firaxis has said that they have designed the game map to provide information rather than the menus. For instance, you're supposed to look at the game map to see what buildings are in a given city. But when you zoom in to see this you get the ugly mess that is the above screenshot

I hope it's possible to get all the info from the regular view, because the close up cities are about the messiest, ugliest 3D graphics I've come across in a computer game.

 

[t0mme]

WHAHAHAHAHAHA


Most useless discussion I've ever witnessed. Complaining about a game feature with can easily be modded to everyones satisfaction. Surfing on these forums on this giant units thing I've read it's just one parameter in a XML file which needs changing (if you want to).

So please, take the title of this thread in mind and shut up

 

[Supa]

Even if I don't agree with some people here, at least I show some respect and I read most if not all the thread before answering.

 

[t0mme]

Even if I don't agree with some people here, at least I show some respect and I read most if not all the thread before answering.

And I know when to have fun and I how to loosen up

 

[Supa]

And you know how to share it too :roll:

 

[t0mme]

And you know how to share it too :roll:

Yeah well, Somehow I am in a happy mood today Don't know why, perhaps the fact that it rained last 2 months and suddenly we now have two weeks of intense sunshine

 

[brianshapiro]

WHAHAHAHAHAHA


Most useless discussion I've ever witnessed. Complaining about a game feature with can easily be modded to everyones satisfaction. Surfing on these forums on this giant units thing I've read it's just one parameter in a XML file which needs changing (if you want to).

So please, take the title of this thread in mind and shut up

actually i have larger issues with the graphics, unit size is just one thing; and with the way the graphics are done, it probably won't look that good if they're smaller--which is probably why they made them large in the first place. like i explained my view earlier in the thread, part of the problem is how they chose to depict everything.

even that aside, i don't think its whining that people criticize design decisions if they believe something is wrong.

 

[ironduck]

If the graphics were beautiful and blended in perfectly with each other in a consistent manner I don't think many people would be complaining about this at all. But zoomed in this game looks like an absolute mess, and according to Firaxis the game is created to zoom both in and out (so we can read info directly off the map).

But if it's possible to gather all the relevant info in the classic zoomed out mode then it's ok, it's just a waste of opportunity to go 3D and not make use of it I think.

The weather is great here as well, gonna be a good weekend

 

[brianshapiro]

it also looks bad zoomed out, imo, especially that it looks more like everything is in squares than it did in Civ3 where the designers worked on the tile graphics so this would be avoided

 

[ironduck]

It's no beauty zoomed out, but at least it doesn't look like some newbie 3D modeler had to scrap everything together in 5 hours

My GAWD, people who are defending the looks of this game, have you SEEN the up-close looks of the cities? It almost makes JUMPMAN (the old C64 platform game consisting of a 10 pixel matchstick man) look like it was crafted by Michelangelo!