The future of Tesla

[Traitorfish]

Why do Silicon Valley tech guys keep re-inventing existing public services, only less efficient and more expensive? Did they all get infected by the same mind-eating parasite or something?

 

[Live trash can]

Maybe the Loop thing is one of those things it is hard to predict exactly how will turn out. With air, without air, buses or private cars, above or below ground, with or without a nice view.

Several things have been developed by the military. And have gained use in civil society; for instance (if I remember correctly) mountain bikes and freeze-dried food.

I don't see how the military can be involved here though.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I dont think this scheme will survive a major earthquake. Hundreds of people trapped in the dark underground is pretty horrifying. It can happen in any earthquake prone area with an underground subway but having hundreds of micro tunnels all full of individual cars makes it that much more dangerous in my opinion.

 

[Hrothbern]

Why do Silicon Valley tech guys keep re-inventing existing public services, only less efficient and more expensive? Did they all get infected by the same mind-eating parasite or something?

Hologram offices have the future

 

[Broken_Erika]

I dont think this scheme will survive a major earthquake. Hundreds of people trapped in the dark underground is pretty horrifying. It can happen in any earthquake prone area with an underground subway but having hundreds of micro tunnels all full of individual cars makes it that much more dangerous in my opinion.

Throw in a gas leak or broken water main into the mix.............

 

[Live trash can]

I dont think this scheme will survive a major earthquake. Hundreds of people trapped in the dark underground is pretty horrifying. It can happen in any earthquake prone area with an underground subway but having hundreds of micro tunnels all full of individual cars makes it that much more dangerous in my opinion.

Yes, I thought of that and then forgot it again

If it were some kind of construction above ground or just below the ground then I think it could survive an earthquake.
If it got rid of both sound pollution and air pollution that would be a great improvement.

Which is what the subway (mostly) does, so...

 

[uppi]

Why do Silicon Valley tech guys keep re-inventing existing public services, only less efficient and more expensive? Did they all get infected by the same mind-eating parasite or something?

The parasite is the belief that you can solve social problems with technological solutions.

 

[Hygro]

Why do Silicon Valley tech guys keep re-inventing existing public services, only less efficient and more expensive? Did they all get infected by the same mind-eating parasite or something?

Explain what's less efficient and more expensive.

 

[Traitorfish]

Explain what's less efficient and more expensive.

Here, specifically? It's the bit where, instead of building one big subway tunnel and putting a train in it, you build lots of smaller tunnels and everyone provides their own train.

 

[Hygro]

Here, specifically? It's the bit where, instead of building one big subway tunnel and putting a train in it, you build lots of smaller tunnels and everyone provides their own train.

If you come to LA to live life there, it will make sense.

 

[Traitorfish]

If you come to LA to live life there, it will make sense.

Sounds like we're back to my "mind-eating parasites" hypothesis. Is water purification also one of the public services that's been farmed out to a tech-startup?

 

[Hygro]

Sounds like we're back to my "mind-eating parasites" hypothesis. Is water purification also one of the public services that's been farmed out to a tech-startup?

Let me put this a different way. Trains are not efficient for LA generally.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The Boring company is a bit silly

The Boring company sounds.........Boring.

 

[danjuno]

Let me put this a different way. Trains are not efficient for LA generally.

I thought LA's lack of rail transport was on account of the streetcar conspiracy back in the 1940's?

 

[Goodfella]

I thought LA's lack of rail transport was on account of the streetcar conspiracy back in the 1940's?

That's kind of a myth popularized by Who Framed Roger Rabbit. People really stopped riding those things in favor of cars. To the larger question of Los Angeles's lack of public transportation - it's complicated. I think the simplest way to put it is that unlike most cities, Los Angeles did not start from a single urban core that radiated outwards. Instead, it grew out of many individual developments that slowly blended into one another. While there is obviously a downtown that serves as a tangible urban core, it's far from being the most densely populated neighborhood of the city and most residents can spend their whole lives without ever even going there. The end result is that it's difficult to develop a rail-based transportation system that can serve enough peoples' interests to justify the cost. In other metropolitan areas, take Boston for instance, having a rail network that primarily moves people from the suburbs to downtown (the main employment center) makes sense. In Los Angeles, downtown isn't even the largest employment center: West LA is (Century City, Beverly Hills, Westwood, Santa Monica etc.). Beyond that, there are countless other major employment and retail destinations scattered around a disparate array of residential options. Again, this makes rail transport difficult to plan, build, and justify. On top of that, public support for rail projects has ebbed and flowed. As I mentioned, rider taste for automobiles is what originally killed the streetcars. By the time the 60s rolled around, traffic and pollution had people yearning for a streetcar comeback. But now, they wanted a modern transit system comparable to those of the other major cities. Thus, they elected Tom Bradley to create a modern subway system. This was 50 years ago. So where's the modern subway system? 1) Popular support for rail waned and Bradley failed numerous times to get ballot approval to issue transportation bonds even after being elected on a transportation mandate 2) city politics surrounding which routes to fund first paralyzed progress 3) federal funding for public transportation dried up in the 70s and 80s under Carter and Reagan 4) extreme NIMBYism (see below). By the early 80s, the city finally got the funding and support for a light-rail line from Long Beach to Downtown. By the 90s, they mustered the cash and support for a light-rail line along the newly built 105 freeway (this made sense because they could just stick the tracks on an elevated section along the freeway while it was being built). However, the city's largest urban corridor (which generally runs along Wilshire from downtown to Santa Monica) lacked a rail line. City politics and NIMBYism kept this project (the purple line) at bay. It should be understood that west LA is quite wealthy, containing literally 100,000s of millionaires. Motivated by a fear that rail would excessively urbanize their neighborhoods and ship in homeless people and drug dealers, residents of neighborhoods like Hancock Park and Beverly Hills (which is technically an independent city) used their access to politicians and ability to litigate to indefinitely delay the purple line project. In the 80s, a Ross clothing store randomly exploded due to a ruptured methane gas pocket that somehow got trapped underground from the city's oil field days (early 1900s). This added another element of opposition: residents literally complained that subway construction would trigger additional explosions. Congressman Henry Waxman used this opposition to further kill federal funding. After years of this, West LA residents started to warm up to the subway and the city is now finally trying to finish it. However, it still faces legal issues. The city of Beverly Hills is still trying to kill the project but now on the basis that tunneling under Beverly Hills high school will cause the school to collapse (or something like that). While the purple line faced hurdles from the 80s onwards, the city managed to squeeze in a few other lines (the expo line and red line) in the 90s and 2000s. But even these were shrouded in drama (pissed residents, tunnel collapses, low popular support, etc).

To put it shortly: it's difficult to build rail transit in LA due to geography. Beyond that, every attempt is marred with opposition and political problems. It really has little to do with General Motors and everything to do with the city's inability to work it's own problems out. And on top of that, it's expensive. But here we are in 2018 and after 50 years of trying, Los Angeles has an incomplete rail network with declining ridership (seriously, most of the trains are not safe or pleasant and most people prefer to drive or take Uber/Lyft). We'll have to see if the Boring company tunnels can overcome these issues but it'll be tough.

 

[Oerdin]

Here, specifically? It's the bit where, instead of building one big subway tunnel and putting a train in it, you build lots of smaller tunnels and everyone provides their own train.

The train being a car which everyone other than the poorest of the poor in America already has anyway? The other big issue is your average American truly despises public transit as it has a stigma. Ride a bus in the US and not only will it take four times as long to get there and require no less than three transfers but you will likely get stuck sitting next to a mentally ill drug addict who keeps screaming about UFO conspiracies on one side and an underaged prostitute named Cloe who keeps scratching a rash down in her nether regions on your otherside.

For better or worse the general public greatly prefers the controlled environment of a private vehicle. That is just a reality which has to be dealt with in most of the US.

 

[Ajidica]

The train being a car which everyone other than the poorest of the poor in America already has anyway? The other big issue is your average American truly despises public transit as it has a stigma. Ride a bus in the US and not only will it take four times as long to get there and require no less than three transfers but you will likely get stuck sitting next to a mentally ill drug addict who keeps screaming about UFO conspiracies on one side and an underaged prostitute named Cloe who keeps scratching a rash down in her nether regions on your otherside.

For better or worse the general public greatly prefers the controlled environment of a private vehicle. That is just a reality which has to be dealt with in most of the US.

I’m not sure what Mad Max apocalyptic hellscape you live in, but I live in the suburbs and take the bus to work everyday. It is faster and cheaper than driving; and far more relaxing as I can stick my earbuds in and not have to pay attention to anything. The fellow riders are also perfectly fine. Even when I miss the express bus and have to take the local it is no worse than going to, say, Walmart late at night.
Further, you seem to be ignoring the physical space cars take up in cities, where land is at a premium. On the highway, in the space four or five sedans would take up, a bus can easily fit 100 people. Less traffic congestion and the city can turn over more downtown space to economically attractive offices as opposed to barren expanses of concrete that are just used for storage.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Why do Silicon Valley tech guys keep re-inventing existing public services, only less efficient and more expensive?

Because already existing solutions can't be patented and monopolized.

 

[innonimatu]

And because they have too much money available to spend on their pet projects. While the more efficient public services, we are told, cannot be expanded for lack of financing. Should make one think about changing the rules of finance...

 

[Oerdin]

I’m not sure what Mad Max apocalyptic hellscape you live in, but I live in the suburbs and take the bus to work everyday. It is faster and cheaper than driving; and far more relaxing as I can stick my earbuds in and not have to pay attention to anything. The fellow riders are also perfectly fine. Even when I miss the express bus and have to take the local it is no worse than going to, say, Walmart late at night.
Further, you seem to be ignoring the physical space cars take up in cities, where land is at a premium. On the highway, in the space four or five sedans would take up, a bus can easily fit 100 people. Less traffic congestion and the city can turn over more downtown space to economically attractive offices as opposed to barren expanses of concrete that are just used for storage.

Which city do you live in?