[RD] The threat to American Democracy

Essentially, yes, though there's more to it than that: Trump has a certain wit, an ability to think on his feet, to be funny, especially when insulting his rivals, that I've never seen in any other politician. Slick Willy probably comes closest to it but his was more standard charisma.

What Trump has is, I feel, best illustrated by this tweet:


Who else, R or D, could come up with fire like this? No one.
Obama does pretty good standup, he's pretty funny. Not as funny as he thinks he is, but still pretty funny, witty, etc. He drops some pretty good zingers on the stump/stage and gets in some pretty sick burns.

Remember, "Don't boo... vote!"?

Another one... Remember the "horses and bayonets" dig he dropped on Romney? That was a nice one. As an aside, I'm guessing that the US military has waaaay more bayonets (if we're talking combat knives that can be affixed to rifle-muzzles) today than they had in the Revolutionary or Civil War... but I guess that underscores the point... the burn wasn't even really accurate but it stung at the time. Another example of that was the quip he hit Romney with about the Cold War calling for the politics back, that was hilarious at the time but has since ironically turned out to be embarrassingly wrong.
 
Either way, to pull it back to the 70s being an age of relative non polarization compared to today:
I heard a documentary on the radio this past summer that was talking about the progression of programming on that station and the show's role in it, including a lot about the Archie Bunker character and how he was intended to be a caricature of a rotten guy who didn't realize how rotten he was. He was supposed to be an example to everyone of how NOT to think/act. Listening to that song again... comparing to how folks think/talk nowadays, if that was supposed to be the shows message about Archie Bunker... I don't think many people in the target audience got the memo. Listening to a Trump speech sounds just like that song. Nothing's changed... not really. I mean things have changed, but as the saying goes, "The more things change..."

It's a little bit of a bummer:(... thinking about it...
 
I think they got it. It wouldn't have been funny otherwise. We laugh at the messed up stuff in ourselves. Macbeth is hopeful and noble. Macbeth is tragedy. :dunno:

You need to root for Archie at least a little if we're to ever get anywhere at all.
 
As an aside, I'm guessing that the US military has waaaay more bayonets (if we're talking combat knives that can be affixed to rifle-muzzles) today than they had in the Revolutionary or Civil War...
Interestingly (YMMV), they are pretty much only used on ceremonial weapons nowadays. As in, the vast majority of combat weapons do not "come" with bayonets, but "show" weapons do - like the ones used in military ceremonies. Marines do still learn to use them though. I looked it up at the time. I doubt it has changed much since - as in, I doubt "we should use more bayonets, tout suite!" is a thing in the past decade (unless Trump thought they were really cool-looking, I guess).
 
If Civilization has taught me anything it's that those bayonets can probably be jammed into the barrel of a tank.
 
Another example of that was the quip he hit Romney with about the Cold War calling for the politics back, that was hilarious at the time but has since ironically turned out to be embarrassingly wrong.
Obama was right that rapprochement was the best policy towards Russia; he was wrong that his administration was going to seriously pursue such a policy. Romney wasn't so much right about the best way to deal with Russia as he was honest about what America was going to end up doing anyway.
 
Just for the record, in case people don't understand it.

We in notAmerica can see first-hand some effects that you cannot.
For example, Nixon, and Ford, under Kissinger's awful guidance, both shamelessly promoted brutal coups in South America more or less for the lulz. Nevermind, say, Kissinger and Nixon sabotaging peace talks in Viet Nam to hurt LBJ's chances in the 1968 election and later Kissinger getting the Iranians to not release the prisoners to hurt Carter and then delivered to the Iranians in what would be known as the Iran-Contra affair.

Here, for example, Carter managed to send a commission to investigate and document the kidnapping, torture and forced disappearance of over 8,000 people in 1979. A series of horrors which had been perpetrated by a military whose officers had been trained by the CIA and US military-industrial complex. Of course, then came in Reagan with former CIA head GHW Bush to the rescue, and in the Falklands War the US tried to intervene simply because they didn't want either one of Thatcher or Argentina's death cult governments to fall.
And, speaking of consequences of such governments, well, a lot of our countries are still in debt slavery to, among others, the U.S. of A. because the various coup governments either contracted debt wildly on their own or decided to ‘nationalise’ debt owed by private investors, which, being so successful, was of course replicated by the US government later bailing out its own internal pirates and robber barons in the 2007-08 crisis.

Just a tidbit, but you can spot a pattern there, maybe.

Also a US president is also a check and balance on other branches and institutions. An outright evil one can mean downright regulatory capture, e.g. Bush getting scum like Rumsfeld and Cheney in, or Reagan with his cliques, while others can get you mixed results. And whatever you say there's still the courts and the Congress, both of which wield great power with occasional responsibility or answerability, and somehow the Gingriches and McConnells escape the judgement of history.
 
Obama was right that rapprochement was the best policy towards Russia; he was wrong that his administration was going to seriously pursue such a policy. Romney wasn't so much right about the best way to deal with Russia as he was honest about what America was going to end up doing anyway.
There was no way to reconcile "restore the Soviet Union", no matter how many smiles and handshakes...
 
There was no way to reconcile "restore the Soviet Union", no matter how many smiles and handshakes...

I am once again asking you to remember that Putin wants to restore the Russian empire, not the Soviet Union.

Obama was right that rapprochement was the best policy towards Russia

What would such a rapproachement have looked like in practice?
 
I am once again asking you to remember that Putin wants to restore the Russian empire, not the Soviet Union.



What would such a rapproachement have looked like in practice?

Either give Russia what they want or turn it into a welfare state with western grants.
 
Call Weird Al and get this one published pronto :yup:
Spoilered for off-topic:

Spoiler To the tune of Ludacris' Move :

Left yo bikes out
I’m ‘bout to cuss you tykes out.
Calm yourself down. Shut your yap.
There’s too much noise. You’ve ruined my nap.
I’m unfriendly and grumpy, too,
And I’m intending on whumpin’ you
Upside your whipper-snapper forehead.
Go hide under the sheets (like a girl) on your bed.
I’m calling the cops; you’re distrubin’ the peace;
You’re going to juvey; I’m clearing the streets.
So bye-bye to every urchin and crybaby.
I’m no longer so speedy and spry, maybe,
I’m going inside for my walker,
If you’re still here when I get back, Ima clock ya.
I missed my pain-pills because of ya racket;
Get your ass off my lawn or I’m gonna smack it.
 
I am once again asking you to remember that Putin wants to restore the Russian empire, not the Soviet Union.
Seems like a distinction without a difference. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm just interested to hear why you are making that distinction. Also, when was the first reminder? Also, when was the first distinction before the first reminder?:confused: Again, I'm curious about the particular distinction and why its important. Is it just about the name "Soviet Union"? I mean I get that Putin has no interest in literally restoring the "Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics", as an entity, all I'm really talking about is the territory that the Soviet Union once controlled. Is there a difference besides that?
What would such a rapproachement have looked like in practice?
Let Russia systematically reclaim all their former Warsaw Pact satellites, including Poland and the Czech Republic, and then also Finland and Sweden... for now... oh and then maybe Norway and then Belgium... we can talk about Netherlands and Italy later...

At a minimum, Putin wants a couple layers of buffer countries between Russia and NATO, which will always be a moving goalpost, because one he conquers Ukraine, that will now count as Russia (Putin has already said as much) so then Putin will want a new buffer country to shield Ukraine.
 
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because Soviet Union despite being an empire of Russians would create a lot of opportunities for the non-Russians . A Russian empire does not have to share hydrocarbon sales with a multitude of countries and stuff . Azeris can afford not joining already , despite being firm friends with Putin . But Soviets automatically justify anti-Russian politics . Bidon would have found the Midterms far harder without the fight against the "Soviets" ...
 
Is there a difference besides that?

The Soviet Union constituted Ukraine in its modern-day borders as a constituent republic (Putin has referred to this as a mistake), thereby in a sense creating the country of Ukraine as we know it today.

Under the Russian empire Ukraine was completely subsumed with no independent existence at all and no recognition that Ukrainians even existed as distinct from Russians.
 
The Soviet Union constituted Ukraine in its modern-day borders as a constituent republic (Putin has referred to this as a mistake), thereby in a sense creating the country of Ukraine as we know it today.

Under the Russian empire Ukraine was completely subsumed with no independent existence at all and no recognition that Ukrainians even existed as distinct from Russians.
That's a misunderstanding. Allow me to explain what the issue at hand here is.

Basically the region we now call Ukraine is a mix of territories that were historically inhabited by a number of peoples including but not limited to Poles, Cossack, Russians and the people we today call Ukrainians. The later of which were split into several different polities which shared a language and broad culture but did not have a distinct national identity.

The Russian Empire, for the most part didn't really care about all that and they carved up their administrative divisions based off conquest and the occasional administrative reform. This lead to a lot of administrative units that were mixed ethnically and culturally. And this was more or less fine because this was the era before ethnic nationalism blossomed in the 19th century so people cared a lot more about their local power structure than about any concept of nation. It's the same situation you saw in all European empires of the time like Germany, Austria Hungary, Turkey and why you still have countries like Belgium today.

When the Soviet Union took over from the Russian Empire they also didn't give a dam about the peoples they were ruling. However, their takeover happened well into the era of nationalism. So they liked to pretend they did because fanning the flames of ethnic nationalism under the banner of "separate but equal under communism" was good propaganda. So they redrew the maps and created new administrative units named after which ever the majority culture in the region was.

The result of these new administrative units was that a lot of times new countries and even ethnic identities where created where there previously were none. Suddenly and over night everyone who spoke the Ukrainian language and shared their broad culture was a "ukrainian". Even if his ancestors just a few generations ago would not have recognized the term. The same thing happened in other socialist nations like for example Yugoslavia where the Kosovo Albanians and Macedonians also sprang up as cultures over night for the same reason.

Now, if you know anything about European history you know this sort of thing newer ever ends well. But it gets worse. Because whilst the Soviet administrative units (called Republics) were ostensibly independent states ruled and inhabited by their named dominant culture they were actually just administrative divisions whose borders were drawn in such a way to best suit federal objectives. This meant that in most cases the republics were just as mixed ethnically and culturally as their old Russian counterparts. And unlike what we would consider mixed in the west this wasn't an even blend across the entire territory either.

The Ukraine is a good example of this. The Crimea and Dombass regions are something like 90% Russian. The western part is something like 90% Ukrainian. And the south-east was majority Cossack until Uncle Joe had a word with them.

And this is the "mistake" Putin is talking about. Because in one fell swoop the Soviet Union not only created a bunch of new nationalistic identities which were inevitably bound to try and revolt for independence but they also ensured that when they did the territories they would claim as their own would contain regions of heavily concentrated ethnic minorities stuck in unfriendly territory.

And if you have any knowledge of European history you will know what this sort of thing inevitably leads to. Wars, wars, and nothing but wars. And not pretty ones either. But wars of ethnic cleansing and genocide,
 
That's a misunderstanding. Allow me to explain what the issue at hand here is.

Basically the region we now call Ukraine is a mix of territories that were historically inhabited by a number of peoples including but not limited to Poles, Cossack, Russians and the people we today call Ukrainians. The later of which were split into several different polities which shared a language and broad culture but did not have a distinct national identity.

The Russian Empire, for the most part didn't really care about all that and they carved up their administrative divisions based off conquest and the occasional administrative reform. This lead to a lot of administrative units that were mixed ethnically and culturally. And this was more or less fine because this was the era before ethnic nationalism blossomed in the 19th century so people cared a lot more about their local power structure than about any concept of nation. It's the same situation you saw in all European empires of the time like Germany, Austria Hungary, Turkey and why you still have countries like Belgium today.

When the Soviet Union took over from the Russian Empire they also didn't give a dam about the peoples they were ruling. However, their takeover happened well into the era of nationalism. So they liked to pretend they did because fanning the flames of ethnic nationalism under the banner of "separate but equal under communism" was good propaganda. So they redrew the maps and created new administrative units named after which ever the majority culture in the region was.

The result of these new administrative units was that a lot of times new countries and even ethnic identities where created where there previously were none. Suddenly and over night everyone who spoke the Ukrainian language and shared their broad culture was a "ukrainian". Even if his ancestors just a few generations ago would not have recognized the term. The same thing happened in other socialist nations like for example Yugoslavia where the Kosovo Albanians and Macedonians also sprang up as cultures over night for the same reason.

Now, if you know anything about European history you know this sort of thing newer ever ends well. But it gets worse. Because whilst the Soviet administrative units (called Republics) were ostensibly independent states ruled and inhabited by their named dominant culture they were actually just administrative divisions whose borders were drawn in such a way to best suit federal objectives. This meant that in most cases the republics were just as mixed ethnically and culturally as their old Russian counterparts. And unlike what we would consider mixed in the west this wasn't an even blend across the entire territory either.

The Ukraine is a good example of this. The Crimea and Dombass regions are something like 90% Russian. The western part is something like 90% Ukrainian. And the south-east was majority Cossack until Uncle Joe had a word with them.

And this is the "mistake" Putin is talking about. Because in one fell swoop the Soviet Union not only created a bunch of new nationalistic identities which were inevitably bound to try and revolt for independence but they also ensured that when they did the territories they would claim as their own would contain regions of heavily concentrated ethnic minorities stuck in unfriendly territory.

And if you have any knowledge of European history you will know what this sort of thing inevitably leads to. Wars, wars, and nothing but wars. And not pretty ones either. But wars of ethnic cleansing and genocide,

Well they already ethnically cleansed Crimea under Joe in 40's and 50's.

Uncle Joe argueably set in motion the disintegration of the USSR.
 
Well they already ethnically cleansed Crimea under Joe in 40's and 50's.

Uncle Joe argueably set in motion the disintegration of the USSR.
That is what I was referring to, yes. I just used a bit of poetic language because genocidal policy of resettlement sounds a bit harsh.
 
Conspiracy theory. Prove it!
We've been over this a few times, but all right:

Campaign finance violations, tax fraud, bank fraud, hush money, money laundering, witness tampering, lobbying violations, conspiracy, lying to investigators, obstruction of investigations, lying to Congress, contempt of Congress, defrauding campaign donors… read up on Newsweek if you like, but you'll say that Newsweek is in on the conspiracy.

Also Russian operatives both co-ordinating Trump's campaign with local ‘apolitical’ groups such as the Tea Party, NRA and KKK, hacking into voting systems in up to 21 states. The FBI indicted quite a few people there. CNN is part of the conspiracy as well!

If you want to quote the American Conservative or Liberty Under Fire websites, which claim that this is all a conspiracy against Trump, feel… free to do so.
 
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You forgot those evil Democrats kidnapping innocent children off the streets and holding them in Pizzerias until the life force can be sucked out of them. I cannot believe the people of Georgia are really that stupid to send that moron to Congress. Worse, people have died because of this BS.
 
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