The very many questions-not-worth-their-own-thread question thread XXII

[Traitorfish]

I'm not sure if that answer will work.

What alternative explanation is there?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

It is from them.

They can understand that anything done by a computer can cost a certain amount, but not the tens of millions it costs for a modern game or animated film.

 

[Borachio]

Well. A modern game will involve millions and millions of lines of code. Many of them generated automatically it is true. But even so. Just tapping that kind of amount of information takes time. I mean, if I try hard I can maybe type out a 300 page book in 2 or 3 days (and I have done) but you're looking at several ten thousand times that amount (I'm guessing!). And it's not just straight text either. It does actually have to compile together and give the desired result.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

It is from them.

They can understand that anything done by a computer can cost a certain amount, but not the tens of millions it costs for a modern game or animated film.

Just to sum up everything that everyone else has already said concisely -

CGI Films and Video Game Cost a lot because:
*Coding is labor intensive and the kinds of people employed doing it are professionals with high salaries, they aren't cheap to hire and retain and they often demand expensive perks.
*Computers to make these games and movies on are very expensive, for movies especially, you need access 24/7 to what ammounts to an entire bank of supercomputers.
*The software needed to make these things is also very expensive - licenses for one copy can cost upwards of $10,000 - and they may need dozens of copies.
*Computers take a lot of electricity to run, and the air conditioning requirements to keep them all cool (especially the supercomputers) also costs a lot of money on top of what it costs just to keep the computers running.
*Movies and games take months or years to complete, which means you have all of these huge costs (labor, electricity, etc) compounding over all that time.

 

[Synobun]

It is from them.

They can understand that anything done by a computer can cost a certain amount, but not the tens of millions it costs for a modern game or animated film.

Market value of services. The higher tier of animators and designs get paid a lot of money. Couple that with sufficient software and hardware for each employee, and you're looking at a steep bill, especially since companies are not exactly on the frugal side of things (buying a $5000 rig when they could get the equivalent pieced together by hand for $2500).

And as said, there is a tremendous amount of work put into making a game. Depending on the position, you're looking at someone grueling away at something at least eight hours a day and making only a few seconds of progress in a video sequence (be it cut scene or theatrical trailer), if even. Then animating the characters and mobs, which in today's world requires dozens if not hundreds of reaction sequences. Ten years ago, a company could get away with having 3-5 animated reactions to being hit, but today we're expecting fluid rag-doll dynamics and in scripted events, this can't be done using the engine unless it's specifically designed for it. It happens that, like in Sleeping Dogs, when a truck is scripted to cut you off and crash into another car, that animators and designers need to work together to piece the collision and response frame by frame to make sure that it's predictable and reliable, as anything based on the engine itself could very well screw up and the scripted event won't happen or happen when it shouldn't.

There is no "Hit the easy button and win" button for animating, coding, and designing a video game, or movie.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I'm not sure if any of those answers will work.

 

[Borachio]

But why? What sort of answer would work?

How about: it's all a big fraud?

 

[Synobun]

I'm not sure if any of those answers will work.

Then the people asking for an explanation are not asking for an explanation, they are asking to have their own egos stroked.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I don't know. Anything to do with buying new technology can be dismissed as a one off cost. If I mention someone spending hours a day for years writing code then I'll get the question of why a book doesn't cost tens of millions to write. Cost of electricity I'm not sure about, but it still won't explain the high costs.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, if they understand how it would be hard for Disney to animate a movie, and they understand how a Choose Your Own Adventure book has to be much longer in total size than any of the individual story paths you take, they should be able to understand how a video game takes a bazillion dollars to make. When you play the game you may only "see" one individual path in the choose your own adventure "book." But they had to write, script, and animate every other potential story path as well using all the stuff Disney or Pixar does for only one "path."

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Well, if they understand how it would be hard for Disney to animate a movie, and they understand how a Choose Your Own Adventure book has to be much longer in total size than and of the individual story paths you take, they should be able to understand how a video game takes a bazillion dollars to make. When you play the game you may only "see" one individual path in the choose your own adventure "book." But they had to write, script, and animate every other potential story path as well using all the stuff Disney or Pixar does for only one "path."

That still won't work, as they don't believe in non linear games.

 

[Farm Boy]

That still won't work, as they don't believe in non linear games.

As in haven't played or reject the existence of such games?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

As in haven't played or reject the existence of such games?

They claim that it simply cannot work, as the structure of any story makes it impossible.

 

[Synobun]

That still won't work, as they don't believe in non linear games.

Out of curiosity, what are their hobbies?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Mostly video games, watching animation and British sitcoms, and reading.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't know. Anything to do with buying new technology can be dismissed as a one off cost. If I mention someone spending hours a day for years writing code then I'll get the question of why a book doesn't cost tens of millions to write. Cost of electricity I'm not sure about, but it still won't explain the high costs.

People who write books sometimes get a very small advance. Even if it is a big advance, it is a one off cost as the rest of what they make comes from royalties.

Programmers are paid big fat salaries, regardless of how long it takes to write the code. The book writers get paid once and most of them get paid crap. All programmers get paid well continuously.

And if your friends really think 'buying new technology' is a one-off cost, then they are kind of dense. And that's ignoring exactly how big of a one off cost it is and how that supposed 'one-off' cost gets repeated constantly as your computer that is great today is crap in 2 years of heavy work. Plus, electricity and A/C is expensive - seriously just think about how much you have to use to keep a room full of supercomputers running 24/7 for years. Then factor in the cooling costs. It's nothing to laugh at, it's very expensive.

 

[Synobun]

Mostly video games, watching animation and British sitcoms, and reading.

Tell them you don't believe in books. It's about as asinine as what they're saying. It's a guaranteed loss of a battle.

 

[Traitorfish]

Chukchi Husky, are these people by any chance of a pack of dribbling thickos? They kinda sound it.

 

[Farm Boy]

They claim that it simply cannot work, as the structure of any story makes it impossible.

Off shoots in plot certainly exist though. Every time to do something that equals "you lose" at a discrete point in the game is an animation and situation that had to be written. Anytime you get an optional item for find a secret. Are these Call of Duty gamers or RPGs, I guess I don't know what comparison to draw without knowing what they are familiar with. I thought choose your own adventure books would do it.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Chukchi Husky, are your friends by any chance of a pack of dribbling thickos? They kinda sound it.

They're university students, studying creative writing and film and game studies amongst other things, so they're far smarter than I could ever be.

Off shoots in plot certainly exist though. Every time to do something that equals "you lose" at a discrete point in the game is an animation and situation that had to be written. Anytime you get an optional item for find a secret. Are these Call of Duty gamers or RPGs, I guess I don't know what comparison to draw without knowing what they are familiar with. I thought choose your own adventure books would do it.

They play mostly Nintendo games and Japanese RPGs. They tried The Elder Scrolls series and the Fallout series and use that as an example of why non-linear games are false.