The very many questions-not-worth-their-own-thread question thread XXII

[ace99]

Interesting. The main quest is one piece of writing and several dozen scripted events. True. But the main quest is nowhere near approaching the totality of the content provided. You can set the game to easy, pick up a sword, and with some careful clicking beat the main plot while experiencing somewhere around what, maybe 3-5% of the content provided? If you want to wander around randomly then there are individually designed little riverbanks, and dungeons, and cottages, and peasants everywhere. The game world isn't limitless but it's probably dozens to a hundred times larger than what you see if you only beat the game once in the most linear path possible.

Then the fact that it's so easily moddable:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3483703

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/

 

[Angst]

The thing they always bring up about the Elder Scrolls is that "it's lack of charm is it's charm", then make fun of the terrible voice acting.

Skyrim's voice acting is excellent.

And your friends don't sound particularly smart.

 

[Farm Boy]

Skyrim's voice acting is excellent.

And your friends don't sound particularly smart.

It's still fun to poke at during certain sections

I don't know that they sound dumb, just like they are talking with a rather insular group that provides self-reinforcing feedback.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Yes. It's very like the Beach Boys. There's the two floor stage Elvis reference.

I'm not sure what the Beatle tribute is.

(That's 3 times I've watched it now. Gah! Still, is ok. Sorta.)

The skiing mimicked scenes from Help. The two floor stage was also a jail. Jailhouse rock.

 

[Angst]

It's still fun to poke at during certain sections

I don't know that they sound dumb, just like they are talking with a rather insular group that provides self-reinforcing feedback.

like cfc?

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Just a simple map in the Hammer World Editor (for the Source Engine) can take several hours to make and compile and its not exactly for beginners

Edit: Crap i missed a bunch of pages

 

[Borachio]

Wait wait wait

That's what they are studying, and you think they're smart?

No, I'm sorry, but they study those things because one or more of the following applies:

1)Too lazy for hard subject matter
2)Too dumb for hard subject matter

I'm thinking it's 2) for certain, quite possilby 1) as well.

Honest to god those are joke degrees and completely worthless. Pat yourself on the back for avoiding the mountain of debt they are taking on for nothing.

Oh wait, doesn't the government pay for College in the UK? Argh, your taxpayers are getting the shaft on that deal in that case.

They used to for University degrees, indeed. But no more. So these people are saddling themselves with a lot of debt (~£30,000 for three years study) for no very good reason.

And yet, if they never earn more than £15,000 a year in the next 30 years they'll never have to pay it back.

Or something like that. Those figures are only what I've vaguely heard.

Maybe their parents are rich, and it doesn't matter to them. And they've really not a lot else to do.

Or it could be they're amazingly talented people who (like Ian McEwan who also took a creative writing course at UEA) will go on to be very successful novelists. Unlikely, eh?

Or amazingly talented video game designers. Also unlikely, I guess.

Spoiler :

Yeah. Tossers, ain't they?

Still, could be worse. I thought they were religious fundamentalists.

 

[Traitorfish]

Wait wait wait

That's what they are studying, and you think they're smart?

No, I'm sorry, but they study those things because one or more of the following applies:

1)Too lazy for hard subject matter
2)Too dumb for hard subject matter

I'm thinking it's 2) for certain, quite possilby 1) as well.

Honest to god those are joke degrees and completely worthless. Pat yourself on the back for avoiding the mountain of debt they are taking on for nothing.

Not that engineers are snobs, or anything.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

The point may be the point - like orgasm is the "point" to sex, but getting there can involve more than 7 seconds of pelvic gyrations. Skyrim, to stretch this tortured analogy, provides you with an optional vacation on the Rhine, several multiple course dinners, a selection of romantic movies and a trip to a wine tasting event and erotic novel shoppe. You don't have to do any of these things to experience the "point." But it might even cook breakfast for you when you're done if you want it to. While asking if you want ham or eggs.

It still doesn't matter. The game follows a plot, so there's a definite beginning and end, so it's linear.

Then the fact that it's so easily moddable:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3483703

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/

They don't believe in mods, as it's not what the designer made for the game, and because mods are not from a publisher, there's no quality control.

Skyrim's voice acting is excellent.

And your friends don't sound particularly smart.

The main complaint for Skyrim's voice acting is that the accents sound too American.

Or it could be they're amazingly talented people who (like Ian McEwan who also took a creative writing course at UEA) will go on to be very successful novelists. Unlikely, eh?

Or amazingly talented video game designers. Also unlikely, I guess.

Spoiler :

Yeah. Tossers, ain't they?

Still, could be worse. I thought they were religious fundamentalists.

They are the kind of students who tend to get As at everything they did at school.

The only thing I ever did well at school was a double A* in GCSE science, and I think an A in history, but GCSEs are pointless, and everything I ever learnt in science and history they tell me is wrong.

 

[Borachio]

The only thing I ever did well at school was a double A* in GCSE science, and I think an A in history, but GCSEs are pointless, and everything I ever learnt in science and history they tell me is wrong.

I think you're an amazing person, Chukchi. I don't think I've ever encountered anyone with such a persistently low opinion of themselves. (And I've met a very great number of people of all sorts.) I get the impression that most people here would like to change this opinion you have, for the better - but we don't know how to do it.

GCSEs are not at all pointless. I think they represent an important step in everyone's development.

There are no absolute truths - that I know of, at any rate. I don't think the science and history you've been taught is "wrong" but simply "partially true". Which is so of anything you could learn at any level, imo.

 

[Angst]

It still doesn't matter. The game follows a plot, so there's a definite beginning and end, so it's linear.

Skyrim's end is not definite. Calling it linear is... A strange thing to do.

The main complaint for Skyrim's voice acting is that the accents sound too American.

Uh, why is that an issue? Did they prefer the voice acting to sound Japanese? lol

 

[Borachio]

To many an English ear the American accent can often (what's the word?) grate.

In the same way that a Cockney accent can grate on the American ear, apparently.

Spoiler :

For goodness sake, just don't talk that way, OK?

(But still one gets used to things. After a while.)

The Skyrim accent didn't particularly bother me, though. But I've never spent any time playing it - just watched it on youtube. So there's that.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Not that engineers are snobs, or anything.

I certainly am, but I can't speak for all of them.

My main point with that last post was to break this weird mental block that keeps Chukchi Husky thinking his ******** friends are smarter than him.

In any case, there is (at least in the US) a serious problem with the proliferation of overpriced, worthless degrees. I don't know what the UK higher ed situation is like, but ours is facing a growing crisis.

Our government is indescriminate in how it hands out federal student aid. This has encouraged explosive growth in the number of private colleges, which, free of public oversight, can charge however much they want because the government will help students get grants and loans to study. Further, in order to saturate the market and get every student possible, they offer junk degrees with slick advertising. This sucks in dumbasses who can't realize that a degree in 'video game criticism' won't likely get them a job that pays 90k/yr like the college promised and will leave them with over 100k in debt.

This stresses the whole system as it sucks away loan, grant and student aid money from degree programs that produce useful graduates at low cost like nursing, etc. Plus, it has created a generation with mountains of uncancellable debt (you can't get out of student aid debt even in bankruptcy here) that amounts to over a trillion dollars.

The housing bubble was a nightmare and the looming student debt bubble could be just as bad - there is more student debt than credit card debt in the US. The president actually mentioned the whole overpriced-worthless degree thing in his state of the union this year.

So yes, I am a snob on this subject but I feel justified in being one. I have faced this issue both personally, as a student, and professionally as a college board member. It is a real mess.

 

[Traitorfish]

The main complaint for Skyrim's voice acting is that the accents sound too American.

Uh, why is that an issue? Did they prefer the voice acting to sound Japanese? lol

Only like half of the voices have American accents anyway. The rest are either English, pseudo-Scandinavian or plain old made-up.

I certainly am, but I can't speak for all of them.

My main point with that last post was to break this weird mental block that keeps Chukchi Husky thinking his ******** friends are smarter than him.

In any case, there is (at least in the US) a serious problem with the proliferation of overpriced, worthless degrees. I don't know what the UK higher ed situation is like, but ours is facing a growing crisis.

Our government is indescriminate in how it hands out federal student aid. This has encouraged explosive growth in the number of private colleges, which, free of public oversight, can charge however much they want because the government will help students get grants and loans to study. Further, in order to saturate the market and get every student possible, they offer junk degrees with slick advertising. This sucks in dumbasses who can't realize that a degree in 'video game criticism' won't likely get them a job that pays 90k/yr like the college promised and will leave them with over 100k in debt.

This stresses the whole system as it sucks away loan, grant and student aid money from degree programs that produce useful graduates at low cost like nursing, etc. Plus, it has created a generation with mountains of uncancellable debt (you can't get out of student aid debt even in bankruptcy here) that amounts to over a trillion dollars.

The housing bubble was a nightmare and the looming student debt bubble could be just as bad - there is more student debt than credit card debt in the US. The president actually mentioned the whole overpriced-worthless degree thing in his state of the union this year.

So yes, I am a snob on this subject but I feel justified in being one. I have faced this issue both personally, as a student, and professionally as a college board member. It is a real mess.

And the proper response to that isn't to construct any sort of critique of the structural forces which have produced this state of affairs, but to call individual students "********"?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Skyrim's end is not definite. Calling it linear is... A strange thing to do.

It still follows a plot, so it's linear.

Uh, why is that an issue? Did they prefer the voice acting to sound Japanese? lol

Having an American accent in a Scandinavian setting cheapens the game, as they never put the effort to try a convincing voice.

Then again, this is also from someone who says that Game of Thrones is an historical drama set in the North of England.

 

[Traitorfish]

It still follows a plot, so it's linear.

That isn't sound logic.

Having an American accent in a Scandinavian setting cheapens the game, as they never put the effort to try a convincing voice.

It's not in a Scandinavian setting, though. It's in a made-up fairyland setting, that is stylistically patterned after the popular image of medieval Scandinavia - or, as often as not, like the popular image of Medieval England with a bit of knotwork splattered thrown on top for good measure.

Isn't it weird how a lot of people end up convinced that everyone in fantasy settings should have British or European accents, but you never hear the same thing about Star Wars? When really it doesn't make any more or less sense for Star Wars to be full of American accents than another equally fantastic setting that just happens to involve more chainmail.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

That isn't sound logic.

I don't know, I never studied how to properly write a story.

 

[Borachio]

Hasn't there been a paradigm shift between novels - historically linear with a beginning and an end, no matter how much they might shift time viewpoints - and video games which are essentially interactive complete worlds (or something)? Or try to be.

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't know, I never studied how to properly write a story.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. The fact that a game contains linear-questions doesn't mean that the game is itself linear. That would only be the case if you had to advance through all quests in a predetermined manner, which isn't the case.

Further, what about games like Civilization, which don't have any sort of plot at all? Surely they prove that non-linear games can exist?

 

[Borachio]

Civilization is fairly linear isn't? I don't recall ever being able to backtrack in time.