Think for yourself, not about yourself

[Dachs]

With the exception noted above, I doubt that anyone thinks "I'm going to think this because that's what I'm supposed to believe." Instead, most people seem to be of the "This person says really smart stuff about the topics I'm familiar with. And now he's talking about other stuff! He's probably right about that stuff two." persuasion.

I hope nobody thinks that about me. I don't even say smart stuff about the topics I'm familiar with.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

Yea all this is possible. More likely though, you just have a set of obnoxious, unjustifiable beliefs that you hate to see torn down. So you erect this false edifice of what you imagine your opponents to be, aka "adolescents" who are "not mature enough".

Excellent observation and yes what you state (with the exception of the false edifice portion) is true sometimes. There are other times however when your audience just can't seem to get it or not want to get it. But never do I try to fool myself into believing a false edifice is going to be my security blanket. My thoughts and ideas have been torn down by mature adults and young ones alike.

How about yourself? What are your experiences in general with forum talk here and elsewhere on the internet?

 

[Azale]

Excellent observation and yes what you state (with the exception of the false edifice portion) is true sometimes. There are other times however when your audience just can't seem to get it or not want to get it. But never do I try to fool myself into believing a false edifice is going to be my security blanket. My thoughts and ideas have been torn down by mature adults and young ones alike.

My bad, it seemed as if you were doing the "well, they're all just too young to understand my superior positions" routine. I misunderstood you

How about yourself? What are your experiences in general with forum talk here and elsewhere on the internet?

The most obnoxious forum I frequent (politicsforum.org) is filled with a gaggle of psuedo-intellectuals who revel in labeling themselves (fascist? technocommunist? paleoconservative? It's all there!). Most of them are a good number of years older than me. That's been my most negative experience.

Of course, this forum has plenty of the kidz going through their political maturation phases. It annoys me to no end sometimes to see the slavish obedience to a bunch of talking points, but I take comfort in the fact that at least they care. I think apathy is a greater evil than being communist or a free marketeer, but maybe that's just me

 

[Dachs]

I think apathy is a greater evil than being communist or a free marketeer, but maybe that's just me

heh heh heh

 

[Azale]

heh heh heh

You call yourself apolitical, but you still have opinions

 

[Cutlass]

With the exception noted above, I doubt that anyone thinks "I'm going to think this because that's what I'm supposed to believe." Instead, most people seem to be of the "This person says really smart stuff about the topics I'm familiar with. And now he's talking about other stuff! He's probably right about that stuff two." persuasion.

I don't agree with that either. I think these days many people see "If you are X, you must believe Y", and so they believe Y because they think they should be X.

 

[CaptainF]

I would label myself, but I just don't like being part of a group.

If that makes me a douchebag, whatev. I agree very much so with the OP.

 

[Camikaze]

"I'm a nonconformist, I don't fit into labels."

Or has that point already been made?

 

[Cutlass]

"I'm a nonconformist, I don't fit into labels."

Or has that point already been made?

It's a bit ironic what nonconformists tend to conform to.

 

[Kraznaya]

the people who are reallly on the cutting edge are those who point out all the groupthink of those pointing out the labeled people who groupthink

ohhh dayuum this just went meta

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

As much as I try to be apathetic about politics, I keep getting pulled in by it. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Bill3000]

As much as I try to be apathetic about politics, I keep getting pulled in by it. What am I doing wrong?

Not enough alcohol?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

No use then. I'm actually abstaining from the booze now because I started graduate school. The party is over and it's time to become a professional. I guess I'm forced to care then.

 

[Cutlass]

No use then. I'm actually abstaining from the booze now because I started graduate school. The party is over and it's time to become a professional. I guess I'm forced to care then.

You can afford to care so long as you maintain a healthy level of cynicism as armor.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm always cautious of the idea of "pigeon-holing"- it's too often used to dismiss perfectly reasonable semantic debate in favour of a trendy linguistic nihilism. Communication is important, after all, which means that terminology is important, and the way in which you describe things- including yourself- has repercussions on how other people understand you.
The important thing to remember is that labelling is properly a layered affair; pigeon-holing is the assertion of universally relevance. When you compare Suffocation to Deicide, singling the former out as "technical death metal" rather than just "death metal" is relevant, but not if comparing them to Iron Maiden, while when comparing them to Lady Gaga, plain old "metal" will more than suffice.

You call yourself apolitical, but you still have opinions

"Apolitical" is generally a grandiose way of saying "lacking formal alignment" or "disinterested", a strange sort of boast born of the modern celebration of aloof detachment. The only people in this world who are truly apolitical who are those kicking the stool out from under themselves.

I would label myself, but I just don't like being part of a group.

Then I suggest you renounced your nationality, shave your head and cut off your thumbs, because all of those features can be labelled and used to group you.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

My bad, it seemed as if you were doing the "well, they're all just too young to understand my superior positions" routine. I misunderstood you



The most obnoxious forum I frequent (politicsforum.org) is filled with a gaggle of psuedo-intellectuals who revel in labeling themselves (fascist? technocommunist? paleoconservative? It's all there!). Most of them are a good number of years older than me. That's been my most negative experience.

Of course, this forum has plenty of the kidz going through their political maturation phases. It annoys me to no end sometimes to see the slavish obedience to a bunch of talking points, but I take comfort in the fact that at least they care. I think apathy is a greater evil than being communist or a free marketeer, but maybe that's just me

No worries mate. I knew you meant no harm but offered a very good argument. Some of those political forums can indeed be nasty. You have to take the good with the bad I guess.

And the one good thing about watching the kidz going through their stages of political development is that you can learn a lot of how the youth think these days in ways that were not possible before the advent of the internet. I have to agree with you about apathy being a greater evil. Well said.

 

[Dachs]

The only people in this world who are truly apolitical who are those kicking the stool out from under themselves.

that feeling of falling just before you hit the ground is intoxicating

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

the people who are reallly on the cutting edge are those who point out all the groupthink of those pointing out the labeled people who groupthink

ohhh dayuum this just went meta

Rock on dude! Good stuff...

 

[Souron]

One of the biggest aggravations to me on this forum is the self-stereotyping that I constantly see. The arguing over how so-and-so is truly a Christian or a conservative or anarcho-communist or whatever. This stampede to pigeon hole yourself.

I see this as debasing discussion because rather than arguing the point or question at hand, people jump to knee jerk assumptions based on how have (usually voluntarily) self-labeled ourselves.

I'd wager that all discussion would be significantly elevated if we stopped this practice. If you didn't say "as a socialist blah blah blah" then people would be more likely to look at the quality of your comment. I very consciously avoid such labeling when I post (unless is specifically relevant to the point being made. IE if you were discussing baseball rules and you had experience umpiring, it useful to point this out) because I want to engage on the level of the idea and not the stereotype of the person. But that's not the point of this thread.

I agree that pigeon holing yourself before a comment downplays that opinion. (Unless your claiming to be an expert.) That's exactly why I do it sometimes.

 

[CivCube]

Good on the OP. Too many people in my age group stereotype themselves just to get attention or claim certain hobbies because that's how they can fit a group's niche. Who cares after college? All you're doing is filling a quota for the marketing guys who invented those niches for that purpose.

Do stuff because it's fun and appeals to you. Don't claim things just to satisfy an argument. That's how Ayn Rand lost her way.