Troglodytes and Troglobites (from Very Many Questions XXXII)

[GinandTonic]

Late teen age early twenties sleep cycles tend to be longer and in middle age shorter. At twenty we might sleep on a twenty six or seven hour cycle. In middle age we might sleep in a twenty two or three hour cycle. In old age it looks like it goes to hell and struggles to have any connection with the clock. If it were a stratified society perhaps this could have become codified?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Menzoberranzan is a notable D&D city, so I'm sure that Mouthwash is at least familiar with the game.

Depends on which setting, though, doesn't it? I've never heard of that city, but then my preferred D&D setting is Dragonlance - in which the notable cities include Palanthas, Pax Tharkas, and Istar. If the city you're talking about is in the Forgotten Realms setting, or Greyhawk, or something else, I'm not familiar with those.

 

[The_J]

Since you have already decided, how about an underground geyser like Old faithful at Yellowstone. Its regularity would be a natural for a dwarf world. Depending upon the frequency you set, its spouting would count hours, days weeks or months. All other increments would be fractions or multiples of that.

I was about to say that.

Also a pure underground civilization would need to have some sort of "natural" light, from fluorescent animals or plants (although no real idea how light would give an advantage, since at the beginning there'd be no need to develop eyes which could use it). These plants/animals again could be dependent on some regular cycle, like incoming water or oxygen (hey, that also needs to come from somewhere). The underground anyways cannot be completely isolated. An external source needs to provide energy. If it's not the sun, then it needs to be something affected by the sun, since there's basically no other external energy source, if you go far enough back with your reasoning.
Unless you add magic to the mix.

 

[Arakhor]

Depends on which setting, though, doesn't it? I've never heard of that city, but then my preferred D&D setting is Dragonlance - in which the notable cities include Palanthas, Pax Tharkas, and Istar. If the city you're talking about is in the Forgotten Realms setting, or Greyhawk, or something else, I'm not familiar with those.

It's one of the great drow cities of the Underdark, so yes, it's a part of the Forgotten Realms setting.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Nope, tidal forces wouldn't produce the same effect. I don't know of any cyclical subsurface phenomenon.

The video directly contradicts you. Watch it again. He shows the ground moving and how that partially cancels out the microscopic tides of a swimming pool.

Did you not watch the video or...?

 

[warpus]

Since you have already decided, how about an underground geyser like Old faithful at Yellowstone.

Is it possible for a geyser to continue erupting at a regular interval for hundreds or thousands of years?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Is it possible for a geyser to continue erupting at a regular interval for hundreds or thousands of years?

Yes. The internal might shift but it can still be regular

 

[Birdjaguar]

Is it possible for a geyser to continue erupting at a regular interval for hundreds or thousands of years?

It is not perfect, but Old Faithful has been going steadily ever since white men noticed it in 1870. In a story, the irregularities can be written out. I think it would be a perfect time keeper for an underground culture. A huge, luminescent cavern, sacred pools of warm water, timely showers of holy water....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Faithful

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The other old faithful in wine country up north of San Francisco has been active and regular even an even longer recorded time.

And I'm failry certainly they were both active going back to prehistory.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Mouthwash]

The video directly contradicts you. Watch it again. He shows the ground moving and how that partially cancels out the microscopic tides of a swimming pool.

Did you not watch the video or...?

Well, it was a while ago. My takeaway was the that tides had more to do with the water not located beneath the moon being pulled towards it (and in the process 'squishing' the water under the moon). So measurable tides could only occur with a world-spanning ocean.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

He said tide forces/effects. You just wanted a gotcha! moment and got called on it.

 

[Mouthwash]

He said tide forces/effects. You just wanted a gotcha! moment and got called on it.

How was it wrong? Tidal forces/effects of any sort wouldn't be measurable in small bodies of water.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

How was it wrong? Tidal forces/effects of any sort wouldn't be measurable in small bodies of water.

Where do small bodies of water come into this discussion?

 

[Mouthwash]

Where do small bodies of water come into this discussion?

I assume that there wouldn't be large oceans buried kilometers beneath the surface.

 

[Borachio]

I thought the video was very good indeed. I actually learnt something today.

But by tomorrow I'll have forgotten it all again. :sigh:

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I assume that there wouldn't be large oceans buried kilometers beneath the surface.

You don't need water to have tidal forces and effects. Tim pointed that out and the video backed him up.

 

[Mouthwash]

You don't need water to have tidal forces and effects. Tim pointed that out and the video backed him up.

Okay, I'll get around to watching it again.

 

[Hrothbern]

You don't need water to have tidal forces and effects. Tim pointed that out and the video backed him up.

Yes
This Wiki on "tidal locking" explains that tidal forces on the moon, caused by the Earth, are the reason that we always see the same side of the moon.
Those tidal forces on the moon happen without liquid water.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_locking

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Okay, I'll get around to watching it again.

Thanks. Do that.