Trump Indicted!

[Kyriakos]

Since it happened, it will be easier for it to happen again (to be indicted, or "indicated" )

 

[Moriarte]

So I checked with Microsoft AI: (can a person with criminal record become president of america?)

Yes, a convicted felon can run for president in the United States of America. The U.S. Constitution does not prevent a felon from running for the office of the President1. However, whether they are able to handle the political fallout of running from or after spending time in prison is another matter1.

I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[Aiken_Drumn]

I can't wait to see him arrested!

 

[choxorn]

Everyone has had at least a week to prepare.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1641575007552778243

er, the rest of it:

"Soros-backed Manhattan <something>" twice? Man, Ron, I'd call that anti-semitic dog whistling but that's more like stage whispering and acting like nobody heard what you said.

 

[TempusFugit]

"Soros-backed Manhattan <something>" twice? Man, Ron, I'd call that anti-semitic dog whistling but that's more like stage whispering and acting like nobody heard what you said.

Conspiracy theories have sadly become such a normalized part of republican narratives now that it is hard to know who harbors real antisemitism, who is a knobhead and who that is just exploiting the knobheads.

Personally I would go easy on accusing people of harboring racist beliefs I don’t know if they have and just call them out for using lazy conspiracy bs explanations.

 

[Samson]

Conspiracy theories have sadly become such a normalized part of republican narratives now that it is hard to know who harbors real antisemitism, who is a knobhead and who that is just exploiting the knobheads.

Personally I would go easy on accusing people of harboring racist beliefs I don’t know if they have and just call them out for using lazy conspiracy bs explanations.

Using George Soros conspiracy theories in politics is inherently antisemitic.

 

[TempusFugit]

As a non-American I am a bit mixed on this.

On the one hand it is nice when scummy politicians and business people are brought to justice. And Trump is a very disagreeable guy who is a fraud many times more so than most politicians are.

On the other hand, I don’t know if this development will actually turn out for the better for the US and for the world. But the future is always very hard to predict.

Using George Soros conspiracy theories in politics is inherently antisemitic.

Not from my own experience. People in my country who sympathize with the republicans and are active on the internet, often seems to believe in these theories without expressing any anti-semitism. In fact a lot of these people are very sympathetic to Israel.

Some of these “anti-globalist” types, or whatever term ones uses to call them, are expressing antisemitism, though usually in a careful and somewhat covertly way. Other probably harbors it, but stays silent on the subject. But it seems clear to me that antisemitism is divisive among these people, and a lot of them have other groups they believe are behind everything in their conspiracy theories.

Believing that the financial elites are behind everything bad is quite popular these days for example, and not just on the right. Freemasonry theories seems to be popular still as well. But The Illuminati seems to have lost of all its popularity in the last years. Perhaps all the ridicule and mainstream attention the subject got actually worked against it in this instance. But that’s probably just because there are a lot of other groups and theories to choose from.

One person that really popularized these theories and exaggerations about Soros was Glenn Beck who had a program on Fox News where he spread this and other brain-rot before Trump was elected.

 

[Senethro]

Seeing elected politicians going nuts on twitter over this is somewhat concerning.

Is like theres a ratchet and everything has to always be getting crazier and having the heat turned up under it and noone can ever just calm down.

 

[Remorseless1]

Seeing elected politicians going nuts on twitter over this is somewhat concerning.

Is like theres a ratchet and everything has to always be getting crazier and having the heat turned up under it and noone can ever just calm down.

It's called Republican politics. It's all performative nonsense, bigotry, and grievances.

 

[Gori the Grey]

So its a misdemeanor for tax expense (lawyer fees), but if Trump used campaign funds that its a felony ?
On the face of it seems rather minor crime compared with all the other crap, (bank fraud, tax fraud)

Falsifying business records is a misdemeanor. If it's done in service of another crime, even another misdemeanor, it becomes a felony.
For his involvement in the matter, Michael Cohen was convicted, in federal court, of campaign finance violation, a felony. So the falsification of business records was done in furtherance of another crime (and in fact a felony) The DoJ's documentation on that matter identified an "Individual-1" who was also involved, but couldn't be charged because of a DoJ policy against indicting (or indicating) a sitting president, i.e. Donald Trump.

As crimes go, it may seem like a minor offense. Compared to other things Trump has done, it might seem less severe (though this doesn't preclude cases being brought on those matters). But there's one way in which it maybe does matter. We have campaign finance laws so that the electorate can have some confidence of elections having been conducted fairly. If a candidate cheats that system and wins, then one could say the entire American voting populace has been defrauded. If that win then has the effect of positioning a particular candidate to commit other crimes, then all of those later crimes are partly a result of the first one.

All that said, I predict Bragg's case is going to rest on direct felonies that Trump has committed, rather than this misdemeanor + second crime = felony. (And also better than the "someone else was convicted for a crime in this matter." And for whatever felony or felonies Bragg goes after, I predict the evidence will be iron-clad. I suspect the Weisselberg case shook loose data that convinced an initially reluctant Bragg to go forward with these charges because of 1) crimes of a severity that we don't yet know about and 2) iron-clad evidence for those crimes.

It's called Republican politics. It's all performative nonsense, bigotry, and grievances.

But also, as Senethro points out, a constant ratcheting up of the nonsense, bigotry and grievances.

 

[Remorseless1]

The fact that the indictments number in the 30s means this covers more than just the Stormy Daniels' payoff. Trumpy has always he took advantage of every loophole and gray area in government regulations to avoid paying taxes and adhering to safety requirements. Perhaps the DA widened the grand jury's investigation after receiving unexpected testimony during the investigation. We'll find out Tuesday.

Sidebar here. Numerous Republican Congressmen and other political figures have expressed "outrage" over the indictments. Made me think "what does/doesn't outrage Republicans?" With a nod to S.E. Cupp, here's what I came up with:
What outrages Republicans?
Drag shows
Equal rights for the LGBTQ+ community
Non-Christian religions
A factual teaching of American history in schools
Books in school libraries
Trans kids/bathrooms/sports teams
Green energy

What doesn't outrage Republicans?
School kids shot to death in school
Mass shootings
Infrastructure needs
Fair income tax rates that don't only benefit the wealthy
Civil rights and voting rights being eroded
Inflation's effects on the middle and lower income taxes individuals
Pollution

I could go on but it's depressing enough

 

[Kaitzilla]

The media is really putting the boot into law and order Republicans today.

Opinion | Trump Seems to Be the Victim of a Witch Hunt. So What?

It’s hard to believe prosecutors would bring this case against anyone else. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

www.politico.com

LAW AND ORDER

Opinion | Trump Seems to Be the Victim of a Witch Hunt. So What?

It’s hard to believe prosecutors would bring this case against anyone else. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

Prosecutors and cops do actually put more effort in for people who flagrantly violate the law constantly and get away with it.

It irritates them.


From back at the start of 2021 when Bragg was running for office for Manhattan District Attorney. (He won on November 2, 2021)
@1:00 roughly.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Falsifying business records is a New York state crime. New York business records were falsified.

nda are legal documents though? my understanding is that those are legally binding contracts. i don't think falsifying records is a viable approach here.

The Statute of Limitations for business fraud is only 2 years if it is a misdemeanor.

statute of limitations is a non-trivial hurdle generally for this one

Using George Soros conspiracy theories in politics is inherently antisemitic.

no, it isn't. i'd spit on his grave and it has absolutely nothing to do with his religious beliefs or ethnic background.

it's okay to hate cretins for their actions, regardless of their heritage.

 

[Senethro]

no, it isn't. i'd spit on his grave and it has absolutely nothing to do with his religious beliefs or ethnic background.

it's okay to hate cretins for their actions, regardless of their heritage.

Ok?

I'm not sure this reads as neutrally as you seem to expect.

Its like you think the conspiracy theories are true, its just the ethnicity thing thats off.

 

[JollyRoger]

nda are legal documents though? my understanding is that those are legally binding contracts. i don't think falsifying records is a viable approach here.

This has nothing to do with the NDA document. It has to do with how the pay-off was recorded on business documents- you know - campaign finance documents, tax documents (was it included as a business deduction), etc. That being said, this is the weakest case of the 4 major potential criminal ones against Trump, unless the indictment contains some surprises.

 

[Remorseless1]

I believe New York law no longer recognizes NDAs as legally binding.

 

[Gori the Grey]

unless the indictment contains some surprises

It almost certainly will contain surprises. Probably not enough to make this case bigger than pressuring Raffesberger or stealing confidential documents or lining up fake electors. But the known facts about the Stormy Daniels case don't amount to 34 crimes. So there's going to be new stuff in there.

 

[Gorbles]

I too like to wander into a thread about Trump being indicted and immediately pivot to how much I want to defend the existence of antisemitic conspiracy theories.

Just between friends, right?

 

[TempusFugit]

Ok?

I'm not sure this reads as neutrally as you seem to expect.

Its like you think the conspiracy theories are true, its just the ethnicity thing thats off.

I’ve never investigated the history of the person George Soros much, beyond reading about him on his Wikipedia page and a few other places, but common sense dictates two things to me here.

1. His detractors on the republican side and the “anti-globalists” are halfway correct about some of the things they are saying about him. He is a powerful person who is using his money to influence the world into a better direction (according to his own beliefs), by donating money to many non-profit political organizations. In this way it wouldn’t be unfair to compare him to Rupert Murdoch who always have been a hate object on the left, for his influence in shaping the world after his beliefs. Murdoch has as long as I can remember been portrayed as a shadowy octopus, manouvering things from behind with his tentacles. And it seems to be at least halfway right, though also a very one sided narrative. Like the Soros narrative on the right. A media mogule and a philanthropist isn’t exactly the same thing, but in principle these two rather powerful people seems to have a lot in common.

2. Most of his detractors are also dead wrong about a lot of the things they say about him, because they totally lose touch with reality in all their exited conspiracy nonsense.

Either way, it should absolutely be fair to criticize this powerful man, no matter what his ethnicity is, without getting falsely slandered for being an antisemite.

 

[JollyRoger]

Getting paid in Sorosbucks was great until I found out they could only be spent at the company store.