Trump is not President

onejayhawk said:
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, criticize.
Those that can't criticize...what?

J
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I'll bite. Those without critical intelligence, it would seem (in the present climate) . . . get themselves elected President. Or elect him.

onejayhawk said:
The third line is the critical one.

J
Click to expand...

The way I've always heard it, the third line is "Those who can't teach, teach gym."
 
onejayhawk said:
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, criticize.
Those that can't criticize...what?

J
Click to expand...
Oh. So that means that the anthropology instructors I had in college were morons, in spite of the fact that they had already put in their time in the trenches (literally), on digs, doing research, writing... the instructor for my linguistic anthropology course brought his parents in to class one evening; they were still continuing their research in Papua New Guinea and had come to discuss their work.

Sadly, the reason some of my teachers can't criticize anymore is because they're dead.

Funny, how Isaac Asimov was able to research, teach, write, and be critical, all at the same time when he still had his day job as a chemist at a university.

Kyriakos said:
Primary education teachers usually are more involved with their work than secondary education, cause the latter do often just end there due to giving up higher aspiration, while the former have had to care about teaching to kids. At any rate i had more good primary ed teachers than secondary ed. That said... it is sort of hell to teach to people in puberty, so yeah, it is a very difficult job. But some teachers are just crappy personalities, and irresponsible/hacks :)

In Uni you can find bad professors as well. I recall at least two of them, but also three professors i was very fond of.
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I've had great teachers/instructors, mediocre ones, and ones who I actively hated. I remember when I saw the obituary for my Grade 6 home room teacher. What an awful person. She taught social studies, French, and English to the Grade 5 and 6 kids, and I'd transferred into that school in grade 5... from a county school to a city school. She had her nose in the air about it, as though all that was taught at county schools was how to muck out barns, or something. She had a habit of openly embarrassing students in class, sometimes about really personal things, and said to me one day, "I don't know what they taught you at _____, but here you have to work."

So I showed her. My class rank at the end of the year was first (as in highest marks). Of course that meant I had to put up with her as my homeroom teacher the next year, as the higher-scoring students were assigned to the split classes (grades 5 and 6 in this case), and she kept right on with her insults. And when I saw her obituary, my first thought was, "You will have deserved every bad thing that ever happened to you."


I had another snooty-attitude teacher some years later, in high school. The French teacher in junior high had recommended me for the advanced stream of French in high school, but I discovered that they were covering things that assumed knowledge the junior high teacher hadn't covered. So my teacher and the registration office made an agreement that I could transfer to the other French stream (there was another class in that same time slot, fortunately). But nobody thought to inform the other teacher, whose class was being taught by a substitute. When the regular teacher came back to find he had an extra student, he wasn't pleased. He said, "Do not think that because you have taken French before, that you will automatically pass this class."

He also had a habit of mocking students whose pronunciation was off. By halfway through the term, some of the kids actively hated him. But there was one student who was absolutely determined to get him to loosen up and acquire a sense of humor... and over a two-year period, it worked. As for me? Well, again, I showed him. I didn't get the top mark this time, but I did pull off an A, two years out of the three that I was in his class. Things thawed a bit when I found out that we had a common interest - badminton. I said I was having trouble trying to teach the neighbor kids how to serve, so he gave me a couple of pointers.

Fast-forward many years later, and we ran into each other at the grocery store. When he found out that I had a typing business, he asked for my phone number, and over the next few years I typed legal papers for him (some in French) - and he recommended me to a friend as well.

So that situation worked out. We became friendly acquaintances. I last heard from him three years ago when he called out of the blue - no typing, but just wanted to chat. I don't know what's going on with him now, or if he's even still alive. I hope so, and that everything's okay.

Glassfan said:
I certainly think knowledge is essential. But education can be controversial. The attacks on schools around the world is related to the fact that parents don't always trust what teachers teach - things often contrary to what parents believe. Teachers have a "bully pulpit" to indoctrinate students into their own beliefs.
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Yep. Public school teachers pushing religion. :shake: I thought I'd left that crap behind in high school, but it was even there in college. My sociology instructor gave us an assignment to rank various things as being important in our daily lives. My religion score was so low, it was in the negatives... the only person in the class to have such a low score. So he called me into his office and started proselytizing for Mormonism - offered to lend me a couple of books, "and when you've read them, you can come back and I'll answer any questions."

I told him that I had a full load of courses that term, and no time for extra reading, and besides, I already had a copy of the Book of Mormon at home, since a couple of missionaries had left it. He was pleased to hear that, and I never told him how I really felt about it. When my friends in that class wanted to know why I'd been summoned and I told them, they said I should report the instructor. What he had done was against college policy.

I decided not to unless the instructor kept pushing, or marking me down for no reason. He never did, so things didn't get nasty.
 
onejayhawk said:
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, criticize.
Those that can't criticize...what?

J
Click to expand...

onejayhawk said:
That is a very old statement. It (usually) means that those unable to go into the field, teach. For example, a disabled combat veteran or a grounded pilot.

J
Click to expand...

onejayhawk said:
It should not be. In any event, it does not apply to traditional K-12 teaching. More professional and trade level.

J
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onejayhawk said:
Exactly. Those that can, do. Those that cannot, pass it on. Maybe substituting 'mentor' for 'teach' would help, but that is not the traditional form. The third line is the critical one.


Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.

However, your response, this whole conversation, is an example of how Democrats have lost their way. In the rush to judge, the thrust of the statement is lost. I could not have illustrated it better.

Read it again. It is not a derogatory statement about teachers. It's a derogatory statement about those that don't know enough to teach but comment anyway. See how your statement fits into line three?

J
Click to expand...
Nice try J to dig yourself out of that deep hole. The first two lines do go way back; I remember them from my college days. The third line (or choice of lines) came later. It has always (40 years) been a slap at teachers and a way to denigrate their contributions to society. The slogan goes back to HL Menken and maybe even back to GB Shaw. If you have never actually taught, then you are just being rude and wearing your ignorance as a big hat.

Then you used a typical alt facts strategy to claim that what you meant was the part about criticism and tied to turn the discussion in a different direction. The third line you posted is nothing without the first two and the first two are all about denigration. It's time to admit your error and move on J.

A better version is :Those who can, do.
Those who can do more, teach.
 
onejayhawk said:
Exactly. Those that can, do. Those that cannot, pass it on. Maybe substituting 'mentor' for 'teach' would help, but that is not the traditional form. The third line is the critical one.


Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think.

However, your response, this whole conversation, is an example of how Democrats have lost their way. In the rush to judge, the thrust of the statement is lost. I could not have illustrated it better.

Read it again. It is not a derogatory statement about teachers. It's a derogatory statement about those that don't know enough to teach but comment anyway. See how your statement fits into line three?

J
Click to expand...

Sigh. You really are just a simple creature.

I've heard this before, and I don't rush to judgment about what this statement means, because it is quite clear. That you don't understand it is an indictment of your limited faculties, and nothing more.

Moderator Action: Once again, personal insults are not allowed. This has already received points, and I am happy to pass out greater sanctions if these are not understood. FP
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Could you?
 
Commodore said:
If you were suddenly thrust into that job tomorrow though, could you do it?
Click to expand...
Are there many jobs that people can do after being suddenly thrust into them? If I'd made different choices in my life academia would certainly have been an option, but it was never one I was particularly interested in.
 
Birdjaguar said:
Nice try J to dig yourself out of that deep hole. The first two lines do go way back; I remember them from my college days. The third line (or choice of lines) came later. It has always (40 years) been a slap at teachers and a way to denigrate their contributions to society. The slogan goes back to HL Menken and maybe even back to GB Shaw. If you have never actually taught, then you are just being rude and wearing your ignorance as a big hat.

Then you used a typical alt facts strategy to claim that what you meant was the part about criticism and tied to turn the discussion in a different direction. The third line you posted is nothing without the first two and the first two are all about denigration. It's time to admit your error and move on J.

A better version is :Those who can, do.
Those who can do more, teach.
Click to expand...
As it happens, I teach Mathematics.

No digging was involved because there was never any insult, at least not to teachers. The third line is, as you say, more recent and can be construed as insulting.

Try:
Those that can, do.
When unable to do, they instruct and mentor.

Teaching is a skill in its own right. One criticism of many geniuses is that they cannot teach what they do.

J
 
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onejayhawk said:
One criticism of many geniuses is that they cannot teach what they do.

J
Click to expand...

Wait, you're venturing to criticize. Didn't you earlier say that was what people who couldn't teach did? Now you're saying you're a teacher. Are you saying you're a teacher who can't teach?

I'm confused.
 
onejayhawk said:
As it happens, I teach Mathematics.

No digging was involved because there was never any insult, at least not to teachers. The third line is, as you say, more recent and can be construed as insulting.

J
Click to expand...
We need smart teachers. :) High school or college?

Context is everything. You've heard it as a compliment; I've heard it as an insult.
 
Americans should be ashamed of how their media treat their president.

If you go this way farther and farther, like you do now, one day you will end where Ukraine ended.
 
I'm not sure if that post was meant as funny or serious, but it has provided me with quite a bit of laughter and good times. :lol:
 
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