TT01: Beating Demigod

[Bucephalus]

OK, DWetzel, I think the best way to put my point across is to explain how I would play this as a solo game.

First, I will look at how the territory is split on the beta continent. I see that we have a weak Inca sandwiched between a strong France and a strong but technologically backward America.

That doesn't suit me; my first target for elimination will be France because as tech leaders they pose a bigger threat of reaching more advanced units - it will probably be as many as 40 turns until we have Magnetism, unless we retain France as a trading partner (this ties in with my reasoning for bee-lining to Chemistry and then Metallurgy - both have immense trade value to the AI, and should enable us to get more or less parity.)

When my forces are ready to land in France - forces that will be comprised of a lot of Cannon, whatever Armies we can muster, and Cavalry - I want France embroiled in a hard war, maybe 10 turns old. Any older than that and there would be time for Peace to break out, and for France to re-arm, something a highly developed DG AI can do remarkably quickly.

So, at that time, who can I count on to give then a tough fight? The Inca? A geographically distant America?

No. What I want is a strong ally, already pushing at the French border. Inca will never be strong, even if I gift them up in tech. America, OTOH, is already strong, and would only be stronger once it has Incan lands and resources.

So I will ally America against Inca now to ensure that when I invade, the continent is split between two evenly matched civs. If Inca somehow buy them off, I will re-negotiate war - I can do this because I have techs to offer.

Upon landing my forces in France (I haven't yet decided where) I will move as a stack. I will not be attacked because I have Army cover. I will send whatever available Army is best suited to the task (more than likely a Cav Army, cash-rushed from my newly built Military Academy, which I wisely began to pre-build for way back when I began to research Chemistry), to pillage resources and communications (road/rail). I will not keep cities - this is conquest not domination - because they will attract attacks. I will head for the core, methodically destroying each city as I come to it. Periodically, I will pause to allow my units to heal - this is not HOF, and time is not a factor. I will keep the Americans at war at whatever cost. Once France has lost it's core and is parted from it's resources, it is no longer a threat to me. At this time I will land a freshly assembled force of a similar make-up, right in the American core, where I will meet little resistance other than city defenders. They will be despatched in the same methodical fashion as the French cities - Arty followed by offensive units, prefrably Cav Armies.

 

[Bucephalus]

I have seen precisely NO Iroquois-Viking combat in my turnset.

That actually shows that our strategy is working; if we are not seeing units it's because they have gassed their reserves, and are sending out units piecemeal as they are built. I fully expect the Vikings to fall more easily than Persia did.

 

[templar_x]

i hope you guys like my second attempt on a dotmap better. if not, i do not know how to please you... it´s so so nice and colourful!

 

[templar_x]

Iros would give Chondote and 11gpt for peace. let´s see how they think about it when they cry for the fate of Tonawanda

and do you know what the ignorant Iros build while we raze their cities? – TWO wonders, ordered by chieftain crazyeye

do we want to keep the Great Lighthouse in Lisbon? it´s a very rare occasion that i ever hold both TGLs... i don´t think we need it, though, and should keep it only if we can make it flip-resistant (=kill the Ports off).

no embassies with Yanks and French exist. will be tough to set off any alliances then, hm? or was this a political statement here? i think i will invest a little money for those.

here´s what we get:

France for about 50g
they have all ressources. 3 luxes. 7 musketeers in the capital, not too bad in my eyes.

America for about 90g
4 pikes and 2 cats. 2 luxes. the French are going to have their fun with the Yanks.

alliance against France, Abe? yessir, for just anything that would not be enough to pay his coffin (like, Invention)
alliance against Incas? America never wants to go to war for nothing, the rest of the world knows that well. do they want oil? not this time. lots of money? definitely no. for the fun of slaughtering Indians they´d ask only for the placebo of 3gpt from us.

Inca for 63g
4 pikes and 1 mi. 1 lux. cute

they even would have asked US for an alliance against France. they don´t want much for it, anything would do. sorry my dear tattooed guys – you are not going to play the active part in the wars coming.

Yanks and Incas both do not have GP (not even Invention)! do we want the Yankees to have it?

and for those who wondered – Ragnar would go to war with us against France for 18gpt. sounds good for me.

i´d go with Zerks against France and Yanks against Incas.

 

[DWetzel]

Good call on the embassies. I think we all kind of figured "oh we will do it when we need it". It wasn't like they had anything we wanted anyway.

Explains to me why we want to give Ragnar anything right now? It's not like he'll do any actual fighting against France (I don't think he can even get to that continent), so he'll just waste that money on stuff like units we will have to kill. Again, talk slow. I had a long day at work, but I'm home now. So the good news is I can do a dotmap pretty soon (see next post).

Re: the Lighthouse, regrettably, I think it needs to be toppled into the sea. It'd be nice to have, but if we are going to take Lisbon out (and I think we should--we have the units right there, and it'll take them about the same amount of time to heal up as it will for us to eliminate Persia), it needs to go, because we've agreed that we aren't going to try to mount a naval invasion there. I'd still rather not leave an AI capital in our backyard waiting to flip some random podunk city of ours.

It should take three turns from now for us to have two knights attack Persia's island, if my math is correct (see photo).

 

[DWetzel]

Besides, the Lighthouse will be mostly useless in a few turns when we have Astronomy and we can move into the sea anyway!

What?



Well, it was worth a try.


My dotmap is attached. I have deliberately NOT looked at templar_x's map before doing this, so we can hopefully compare and contrast.

 

[templar_x]

Explains to me why we want to give Ragnar anything right now? It's not like he'll do any actual fighting against France (I don't think he can even get to that continent), so he'll just waste that money on stuff like units we will have to kill. Again, talk slow. I had a long day at work, but I'm home now. So the good news is I can do a dotmap pretty soon (see next post).

it´s Buce you told the last time to talk slow, you´re telling me the first time. ok, i´ll write slower since my day at work was hard as well. should help you to keep up with your speed of reading J/K

the Vike-French war is a minor action with the following rational, if that is plausible:
a. it won´t change anything for Ragnar. he cannot build a lot of units for 18gpt, and whatever he builds (and has built) probably died in his wars against the Iros.
b. it should make France start to build medieval troops and spend less than the current 80% in science.
c. if there IS a safe sea route available, Ragnar could lose a fight against a musketeer and give the French their GA. i somehow have the feeling that the continents are very close to each other in the very north.
d. Ragnar may be occupied with 3 wars going and not start another one - against us - in the next few turns.

and do you mean to despise my dotmap again ??????????

 

[DWetzel]

That actually shows that our strategy is working; if we are not seeing units it's because they have gassed their reserves, and are sending out units piecemeal as they are built. I fully expect the Vikings to fall more easily than Persia did.

I'm not so sure they have. Honestly, I think the Vikings would have wiped the floor with the Iros if they were genuinely fighting... wouldn't they?

What I think is happening is in evidence at Zwolle, where two 'zerks and a knight are cruising past (and through) our border. Where are they going? They are going to beat up the evil Portuguese, way down at the south end of the continent.

I think they certainly COULD have lost some units, except that they chose to fight the enemy on the far corner of their continent instead of the one right next to them. Note that there has been exactly one city that's changed hands there since 130 BC (looking back at the saves). We know the Iroquois are gassed, and have been for some time. Have the Vikings been gassed for that long as well?

 

[DWetzel]

it´s Buce you told the last time to talk slow, you´re telling me the first time. ok, i´ll write slower since my day at work was hard as well. should help you to keep up with your speed of reading J/K

the Vike-French war is a minor action with the following rational, if that is plausible:
a. it won´t change anything for Ragnar. he cannot build a lot of units for 18gpt, and whatever he builds (and has built) probably died in his wars against the Iros.
b. it should make France start to build medieval troops and spend less than the current 80% in science.
c. if there IS a safe sea route available, Ragnar could lose a fight against a musketeer and give the French their GA. i somehow have the feeling that the continents are very close to each other in the very north.
d. Ragnar may be occupied with 3 wars going and not start another one - against us - in the next few turns.

and do you mean to despise my dotmap again ??????????

a. True, but he might be able to upgrade some units. I don't think it's anything that would turn the tide of battle, but doesn't this fall under the heading of "why give them anything if we don't need to"? Anyone else would do equally as well as an ally against France. If he has no units to fight the Iros, I fail to see how a third war will make a difference. The ONLY reason to do it is so he doesn't prematurely start something with us. On the other hand, what if he of all things faithfully adheres to the alliance for 20 turns? Presumably we would not attack him then, right? No, I would much rather create an alliance with someone that we won't want to DOW soon.

b. Sure, but anyone else would do as well for this.

c. Theoretical possibility, though from what we can see of the map it's not too likely. A better bet for that would be Portugal. Or, well, it would be if they had the Lighthouse much longer... A much better bet, of course, would be someone we know France can actually fight.

d. First off, the stupid AI probably won't take that into account. Second, I don't see how precisely three is the limit. (If two won't preclude him, but three would...)

e. I said NOTHING about your dotmap

 

[templar_x]

DWetzel, did you really see those troops head south? to me they look like going north...

the Iros could kill appearing single zerks even with archers.

another question, did you see those Persian galleys already unload troops?

 

[templar_x]

b. Sure, but anyone else would do as well for this.

c. Theoretical possibility, though from what we can see of the map it's not too likely. A better bet for that would be Portugal. Or, well, it would be if they had the Lighthouse much longer... A much better bet, of course, would be someone we know France can actually fight.

not in my eyes. i stated that before, so you know that - i do not see how either Incas or Yanks could stand against France. not alone and not together. us making them fight France would only make the latter stronger.

but i am not in love with those war plans. as i stated in my long "summary" post i could live with no war at all, because i feel the time window to set up war amongst the civs on the other continent is already closed. but the way described i could see how this could bring us SOME benefit.

 

[DWetzel]

And Buce, thanks for #441. It helps me understand where you are coming from.

My personal approach would have been to take out a weaker American then Incan contingent, keeping a few cities but razing most, up to the chokepoint at the center (allying in whoever was my #2 target on the list), then taking out France last. Sure, they'd be stronger, but by then I'd be a LOT stronger (counting on my science farms and generally superior HI) and would be able to do what you describe to France, only more efficiently.

I do tend to underestimate (badly) the AI fear of attacking armies, and I think that is where your strategy takes advantage of something I had not considered. That is probably a result of my builder tendencies--three armies, such as we have in this game, is mostly unheard of for me, at least until the point where I have the Academy churning them out. (I'm trying to rectify this lack of understanding by playing a couple of AW games.)

I do agree that a Military Academy prebuild would be a Good Idea, and I would do the same. My non-scientific approach says we should probably start that shortly after the end of our GA (which, conveniently, is about the point we should be fully laying the smackdown on Ragnar).

 

[DWetzel]

DWetzel, did you really see those troops head south? to me they look like going north...

the Iros could kill appearing single zerks even with archers.

another question, did you see those Persian galleys already unload troops?

I suppose, in theory, that they could have killed 'zerks with archers (or longbows, actually)... and I could in theory be hallucinating on the direction of the 'zerks. It's possible. I dunno. I was quite sure, but in looking at them, I am not so sure.

The galleys have not unloaded. I think I mentioned that in my turn report. They bear watching; we do have a few units in the area and an army that should be able to heal (not, please, in Oporto). Basically, anything not at Hamadan or about to get on a boat should heal up and play defense for a couple of turns. My best guess is that they may have a settler pair that will have to be killed. Worst case, they land an archer or something that we splatter with our 4/13 army.

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm not so sure they have. Honestly, I think the Vikings would have wiped the floor with the Iros if they were genuinely fighting... wouldn't they?

Not really, it's a numbers game. As you have seen with the Persians, cities are defended by 3+ Spears at DG. Sure, the Vikings have the better offensive units, but unless they send them in sufficient numbers there will always be more defenders. And you've seen the AI attack you, many times, I'm sure; that mini-stack for example - the Knight will attack the turn before the Zerks are able to. And as templar pointed out, Zerks defend no better than Spears, and are vulnerable to counter-attack.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Actually, the higher the level, the less conquering goes on. The AI respects offensive units, but it still builds mostly defensive ones. And since the AI attacks without focus, the defenders usually win. At this level, each city has plenty of defenders. The difference is usually technology in AI vs AI warfare, the one with better troops usually wins.

 

[templar_x]

in short words:
two enemies less, lots and lots of cities founded, Chemistry in and Metallurgy halfway through, preparation for war against Vikes started.

foreword
we had discussed a lot, but didn´t find agreement on quite a few points. this makes my 2nd turnset very different from the first, when we started war against Persia and the team had outlined exactly what it wanted to happen. well, it happened.
this time i taste i will have to make some decisions more by myself, and whatever goes wrong, one of you guys will be able to say `haven´t i told you...´. that´s ok for me – but don´t tell me afterwards i didn´t warn you

there is a lonesome longbow of ours in Iro forests, no defense unit around... i cannot see what it is doing there. maybe has killed off an Iro unit before with no scratch. ah right, that´s what DWetzel´s log says. i assume it will be killed himself on ibt, but well, it´s only a regular anyway.

preflight
there is nothing with movement left. hm. personally, i would have prefered that some of the shuffling would have been left to me as the next player. how do you guys usually see this? or is this something individually arranged? i ask so that i leave it the way it is expected for the next player.

unit support -21gpt
we need loads of settlers (for a self-esteemed “builder” DWetzel warred a lot AND well while he built really few settlers...)
we are already “strong” compared to the Vikes (just like to everybody else, except “average” to the French)

actions in 350AD
build embassy in Paris for 47g
build embassy in Washington for 82g
sell/gift Yanks Invention +1gpt for 8 gold
DOW Incas + ally Abe against them for GP
DOW France + ally Ragnar against them for Dyes and 4gpt

mm a lot, especially for growth,
mm Rotterdam for 20spt and set it for a library (just for records, i still markets)
switch quite a few cities to settler builds
switch science to Chemistry, slider at 100%, comes in 8 turns

rush settlers in Dordrecht, Einhoven, Zwolle, Harlingen, Gouda, Leerdam, ;mm Enschede for settler in 1 turn with growth (instead of treb), Maastricht for settler with growth (needed only 1 more shield)
switch Arnhem to aqueduct in 2 (from knight in 4)
switch Haarlem to harbor in 5 (from lib in 17)
switch Tilburg to settler in 1
Breda @ 15spt looks more suited to SM to me, but i leave it for a knight in 3
switch Leiden to courthouse in 10 (from mace in 5)
mm Den Helder for SM in 2 (instead of 3)
switch most of the captured towns to settlers (Persian citizens will be just as good as our own ppl soon)
switch Amsterdam to lib in 4 (from knight in 3) – if we want libs, here is where it makes sense

even with all the beakers i can mm we can research Chem only in 8 turns, so i pull the slider back to 90% for 8 turns @ -20gpt. means i have to keep 160 gold in the bank, that i mustn´t use for rushing, for the sake of staying capable for negative research. we want to be first to Chemistry! if we manage that, we can slow down science a bit and produce some income again for upgrades (there are quite a few waiting).

ibt
i see two Vike knights and 2 zerks heading NORTH, 1 galley enters our waters
Incas declared against Vikes! (French obviously bought them in – if we weren´t allied with Ragnar they sure would have him, too)
Iro vet longbow kills our lonesome reg longbow, flawlessly
Persian ships head east (where are they going?)
Port galley to south

360ad (1)
Dordrecht settler – treb
Eindhoven settler – settler (it´s 79% corrupt, either we build an aqueduct and a courthouse or this city will ever stink)
Delft knight – knight
Zwolle settler – settler (will only take pop from there as long as it is so likely to flip)
Maastricht settler – settler (it could easily be a 4-turn “rush” settler factory if we could afford it)
Harling settler – settler (same true as for Einhoven, at 75%)
Enschede settler – settler
Tilburg settler – treb
Gouda settler – treb (for now)
Leerdam settler – settler
Iros build just another wonder (JSB)

siege of Hamadan
rocks hit 3 out of 5
vet mace kills 2hp-reg spear, -1hp, no prom
vet knight takes Hamadan, -1hp, no prom
city set to wealth
2-0

siege of that Iro town i forgot to remember the name before burning it down
4 rocks hit, there are 4 reg spears in town
e sword dies to 2hp spear
e sword kills 2hp spear, 4hp left
vet knight kills 2hp spear, 1hp left
vet knight kills 2 hp spear, 3 hp left
vet knight kills longbow, 3 hp left, promotion to elite
4/5 e* sword kills 1hp spear, no hp lost
city razed, get 4 slaves
you don´t believe it, they had build it on a cow! :no:
make peace with Iros for Chondote, 14g and 16gpt
Chondote comes with a harbour, set it to wealth
7-1

there is one worker too few for 1 turn road build on forest S of Den Helder. hm. assign everyone to his new job.
load the 2 knights up for mission “eliminate last Persian city”,
on the way i see that Ports only have spears as a defense unit...
2 of our units are running on automove, please don´t do that.

i didn´t remember that, but apparently the Iros gave us WH. i have to put the slider to 10% lux, still 90% science, now -29gpt.
i check a deal with the Iros: they would give us 12gpt for our extra horses. i hold off, though. it´s not the MWs that i dislike – they would probably build only a few and against the Vikes. but it would trigger their GA, and i don´t really feel i like them to have it. would like to hear your opinion if one of you would have made that deal.

ibt
Ragnar dislikes our galley, we apologize (and don´t ask him for the same respect... he´ll learn it another way)
Ports move around some galleys AND LAND A SETTLER ON THE EASTERN SHORE! argh
Pasargadae gives us a crusader (Knights Templar loves me for a reason )

370ad (2)
Pasargadae produces a worker as well – wealth (for now)
Arnhem build aqueduct – mm it to 14spt and set it on knight
Den Helder SM – SM

lots of mm and trop shuffling
bring settlers in position
find a Persian galley next to Chondote (i have no idea where it came from)

ibt
Viking and Port galleys leave towards ocean/sea tiles?
our fortified reg galley wins against a Persian vet galley @ Chondote
Pasargadae deposes us (no troops inside, but more than enough next to it)
Ports found Brada (on the red spot of my dm)
8-1

380ad (3)
The Hague lib – Pentagon
Breda knight – SM
we get a Palace expansion

recapture Pasargadae
7/13 sword army kills vet spear, another reg spear appears! (i will never understand how they do this, in other words, i hate they can rush the same turn!)
vet knight kills reg spear, 1hp left, no prom
i didn´t use the army for the 2nd attack because i didn´t want it to stay in the town in ibt
10-1

siege of Ergili, the last Persian city
they have an e spear in it
e knight kills e spear, 3hp left, no leader
vet knight kills reg spear, 2hp left
we take the city and the Persians are history!
with our two galleys i get a good picture of that southern island. there appear to be 3 Port cities... Henry says the same. hm, maybe we can finish another job, while we are down here
12-1

found Wine City – assign it to trebs for now, our 5th lux is connected!
found Titidemigodograd – galley
found Tempremiere – settler
rush FP in Pasargadae

rush settler in Hilversum, Enschede, Leerdam
mm and i can take the slider down a notch and we are at +8gpt, 5 turns to Chemistry

ibt
Ports and Vikes sign peace
i see a Vike e knight win a fight against an Iro defender in Niagara Falls
Iros want us out (i had posioned a “spy” knight in order to see how they were doing)

390ad (4)
Amsterdam lib – knight
Pasargadae FP – lib
Rotterdam lib – knight, mm for a 3-turner
Hilversum settler – settler
Utrecht court – knight
Enschede settler – settler
Leerdam settler – treb for now
we get another Palace expansion (3rd storie)

found Buceadvice on green dot in my dm next to Pasargadae
DOW Port, move troops against their lands, capture 1 worker
fortify stack of cats in Lauwersoog for later upgrade
move next settlers in position
mm for +42gpt, Chem in 4
there´s some risk that we lose 2 knights on a galley

ibt
horse runs out of Lissabon and kills a vet longbow of us, flawless (sorry, i miscounted tiles)
Ports bring 2 units towards Ergili
12-2

400ad (5)
Delft knight – knight
Haarlem harbor – aqueduct
Breda SM – SM (fyi, it needs to work the forest for one turn only, for 2nd turn you can assign a scientist)
Den Helder SM – SM

Lissabon front
vet knight kills vet Port horse, 2hp left
1st mace army attacks Lisbon, kills a reg spear, loses 4 hp
2nd mace army attacks, kills reg spear, flawless
1st mace army attacks, loses another hp
vet knight kills last reg spear, flawless, we take Lisbon with the harbour intact
17-2

Southern island front
e knight kills reg horse, 2 hp left
vet knight kills reg archer, 3hp left
unload 2 vet knight close to Leiria, i see a reg warrior
19-2

Braga
e mace kills reg spear, flawless
treb hits 2nd spear
e sword kills 2nd reg spear, flawless, autorazes city and destroys a galley in it
21-2

found New Amsterdam on yellow dot next to Den Helder

stack 2 cats in Breda for later upgrade
stack knights in the midst of our center, where from they can reach any point in 1 turn if an invasion should occur
join worker to Arnhem for 18spt
with some special mm i set all cities so that i can put the lux slider back to 0%
sell the harbour in Lisbon
mm to get Chem in 2 @ +17gpt
rush settler in Oporto

ibt
Port reg mace kills our vet knight, flawless, on Southern island
21-3

410ad (6)
Oporto settler – settler
Groninger settler – settler
Maastricht settler – settler
French are building Shakespeare´s (now we know what they´re researching )

Coimbra now has a reg pike on top (heck, how did they get iron?)
land two knights on the gold mountain close to Coimbra, capturing 1 slave

vet knight kills vet spear in Leiria, -1hp
vet knight kills reg spear in Leiria, 1hp left, and razes it for 1 slave
23-3

found New Rotterdam – worker
found New The Hague – trebs
found New Utrecht – trebs
change The Hague to Palace as a MA prebuild (there won´t be much fighting going on soon so i think we cannot rely on another leader to appear)
change Arnhem to The Pentagon
change Delft to lib

our scouting galley heads down the east coast of our continent, there are two Vike galleys (with zerks?)
four Vike units siege Niagara, Iros obviously lack offensive units for counter-attacks

ibt
Vikes move some troops and finally take Niagara Falls (what they do not know is that i have prepared a settler for this case )
Ports move their galley back north (back and forth)

420ad (7)
we research Chemistry! Metallurgy next
brandnew crusader from Pasargadae
Rotterdam knight – knight
Lauwersoog court – mace (for now)
Breda sm – sm

we don´t know for sure yet whether we are the first to Chem, as Incas, French and Ports won´t talk to us yet
i find the Ports´ iron – they really hold iron and horses on their wee island

join worker to Arnheim (-2 turns for Pentagon)
found New Groningen on purple dot on the west coast – treb
change Pasargadae to barracks (in 1 turn) so that the next crusader is vet again
found New Eindhoven in the very south – worker
found New Arnheim in the southeast, mainly to seal off our land there so that foreign settlers are not attracted

draw a dotmap of our north as setting it up for science farming. if i didn´t miscount it should deliver at least 12 food per city with 3 tiles worked (a 1 food-tile being enough for the 3rd tile after we have rails), making 3 specialists/city. to claim the most of the now free lands, i move the settler i have prepared to the dark blue dot first.

mm Lauwersoog for 5-turn knights
mm for Metallurgy in 6 turns @ 80% science and +57

ibt
the Vikes hit St Regis hard, but it holds on for another turn
the French want to talk to us again – tech trade wouldn´t be a problem, as they DO NOT HAVE CHEMISTRY, i hold off for now (we have that deal with Ragnar running, too)
Ports land a single horse in the sw :no:

430ad (8)
Amsterdam knight – knight
Pasargadae barracks – lib (i had mm´ed it for max growth for the last turns and it´s now size 7 @ 20spt!)
the last Persian resistors give up
Den Helder sm – sm
Leerdam worker – settler

i find out that Vikes have GP, that won´t make it easier

2nd mace army kills reg Port horse, -1hp
e mace kills reg pike in Coimbra, 1 hp left, no leader
vet mace kills reg pike in Coibmra, 1 hp left, prom to elite, takes Coibra with barracks and harbour intact
move 3 knights towards Evora and see a reg spear on top of it
25-3

found New Maastricht in the former Iro lands – treb
fortify stack of cats in Rotterdam for later upgrade
rush settler in Dariush Kabir

ibt
Vikes try to trespass our territories with a knight
vet ¾ knight defends against reg Port mace, wins flawlessly, promotes to elite
Ports move their last troops
26-3

440ad (9)
Dariush settler – worker
Eindhoven settler – settler
Middelburg lib – treb
Breda sm – sm
Leiden court – lib
Tilburg settler – settler
Gouda settler – treb

eknight kills reg Port warrior, flawless, no leader
27-3

siege of Evora
vet knight kills reg spear, prom to elite
e knight attacks reg spear, takes 1 hp off, retreats
vet knight kills reg 2/3 spear, takes city with harbour intact, gains 2 slaves – sell harbour – set to worker build
Ports ceased to exist in this game
29-3

we can build quite a few more science cities on the former Port island. 11 to be precise, 2 of which we already have. Evora should be abandoned with a settler. i add another dotmap. we can irrigate the land right from the start through the connection south of the mountains.

rush settler in Hilvarsium
“stack” first battle settler on the mountain next to Tilburg/Rotterdam
have to raise lux to 10% (it´s late and i cannot find the reason why. do we get WH in monarchy even when we declare? this happened twice in my turnset, both times after i had eliminated an AI civ – is it comfort of our electronic citizens for their AI comrades?)

sell baracks in Coimbra

ibt
France and Vikes make peace let´s go into the trading
Vikes take St Regis
Vikes move their whole army into our land

450ad (10)
Rotterdam knight – knight
Hilversum settler – settler
New Amsterdam worker – worker
Utrecht knight – knight
Delft lib – mace (set up as a 2-turner if you want it to be)
French build Smith´s

some shuffling, some moves left to next player on purpose.

 

[templar_x]

and here´s the save and instructions for the next player:

i leave the possible tech deal for you. we might be able to pay gpt for Astro with peace and make another deal with Chem afterwards. i didn´t check on this. Chem-Astro would be accepted straight, but doesn´t look too sexy in my eyes at first sight.

many cities are mm´ed for a certain production goal. there are prebuilds for the Academy and Pentagon. there are 5 GA-turns left. i haven´t mm´ed the current turn.
the economy is fine. i am sorry i haven´t left you any money. negative research for getting Chem first and rushing settlers depleted the little funds we had.
before mm we can get Metallurgy in 3 @ 70% with +65gpt.

i left you troops in the north prepared to do either one of the following: kill the Viking units (too early in my eyes) or build a barricade by closing the gateway with one of the knights. that way the Vikes couldn´t move through our lands any more. or we could simply let them do so. your call.

in my eyes, we should be optimally prepared for war against the Vikes by the second half of the next turnset or at the beginning of the set after the next.

two armies lie next to Reykjavik, one on lookout next to Copenhagen.

that was a lot of mm, building and founding in my turns. sometimes tedious, but with nice outcomes: we have a lot of cities, some more are productive to produce units. we dun pay nothin for unit support military build up started.
there are three settlers around Hilversum, prepared to be put down next turn. i would go for the aggressive settling towards the Vikes this way. with the current setting, it should be easy to ask them out and get war with them at the moment WE want plus some nice WH. so making them mad beforehand is a good plan imo.
for settling on our continent, i propose another dm for the north. in the south most of the places are filled either up to DWetzel´s or my own dm. there is some more space left in the SE and one or two in particular in the SW – another settler is positioned there already for founding next turn, next to the cow. 2 more settlers are on their way down the west coast, intended for the former Port island. future settler builds should be held back for their use as combat settlers – we´ll need a few.

i would leave one knight on the southern island plus get a few defenders there. we have a two boad-shuttle service in place. two settlers are already on there way to their founding sites due to my dm.

a few SM´s are moving northwards through our center currently to help with defense up there.
be careful about defense – with Metallurgy our nice city walls disappear. i´d like to rebuild some of them, especially in the north.
Indigo Montoya is in Rotterdam for upgrade.

i started to bring the units used in the Port war northwards. some are still on their way. please have a look on what is already fortified at the central gathering points before you press enter. there shouldn´t be anything on automove, but a few units with movement left.

 

[Bucephalus]

templar, are you Commando Bob in disgiuse? that's the longest turnlog I've seen since....... well, your last one!

Looks like a solid set. I raised my eyebrows when I read you first sold Invention for a pittance, then gave GP for the alliance, but it was actually quite a clever move, IMO (if I understand your motivation correctly) - no harm in giving them military techs at this stage.

I don't have time to look at the save (I'm off on vacation soon) but I'd say to hold off from dealing for Astronomy just yet. I'm still of the opinion that the Vikes will have it before we need to think about trading for it, and I don't like giving France that much gold.

I think you can probably second-guess my opinions on any issues arising in the next week. Good luck, guys, and try and save me some heads to crush.

 

[templar_x]

templar, are you Commando Bob in disgiuse? that's the longest turnlog I've seen since....... well, your last one!

so was it too obvious that i registered a second time, as Cbob and templar?
seriously speaking, Cbob´s notes indeed ARE inspiring. when i read them, i feel i could instantly start playing from his file.

as for the Yankee deal:
as far as i understand AI attitude (i.e., little) it is generally necessary to make the first deal(s) with a civ OUTSIDE of the alliance (if there is more than one and you do not want the first one to be a linked deal etc). any other deal would not have a lasting effect in their attitude towards you when the alliance ends. it would be a mere "in alliance"-attitude improvement. if i am wrong here, please let me know - it´s not a major thing, but something i believe that works out in different ways.
in our game with rep lost i don´t think any of that matters much, anyway. otherwise i liked the Yankee deal as it is set up, but the Yanks suck militarily. i didn´t check in the last turn, but i do not think that they took a single Inca city.

 

[DWetzel]

Nice work! Sorry about the automoves, old habits die hard.
Glad we could off the Portuguese while we were there. Will make the next war easier.

More comments in a few hours.