TT01: Beating Demigod

[DWetzel]

Yeah, I didn't get into the MMing that probably ought to be done. I will before I play.

Opinions on maximizing food in Groningen and maybe whipping off a settler before we revolt? That food isn't good for much else right now.

Also, opinions on turning Utrecht into another shield producer and making a barracks there?

 

[DWetzel]

Is Monarchy still unknown on our continent? If so, we should be able to trade now it's not a French monopoly, and certainly once we have Republic as bait.

No, Monarchy is known by all. Our tech trade possibilities are:

Portugal even (war)
Iros: are up Currency, Republic, Monarchy.
Persia: are up Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Construction (and Feudalism).
Vikes: are up Currency, Republic, Monarchy.

France: up Monarchy and Construction, down Lit.
Inca: are up Monarchy, down Code of Laws and Lit.
America: are up Monarchy, down Writing and Math (and following techs).

The other continent does not yet have Republic; unfortunately they also don't have much else we want.

I do see one fairly easy trade scenario, that involves giving France Republic. I don't think the Inca or Americans will be able to buy it for a little while though.

1. Trade Republic to France for Construction (+ gold; at present they have 2gpt+20g for Lit, which I'm not inclined to give them). They want Lit + 8 gpt + all 85 of our gold for Construction right now.

2. Trade Vikes Construction for Currency. Should be doable, I'd think.

This would get us to the middle ages. We could probably use Construction to rope the Iroquois into an alliance vs. Persia.

 

[Bucephalus]

If I step out of line here, I'll edit this. You guys do have some overrun in Amsterdam, I don't see a better configuration though, so I'd stick with it.

I left both Amsterdam and The Hague making 10 shields apiece, so there is no reason that they shouldn't now - I'll d/l the save and take a look.

I see no reason to panic at the Persians reaching the MA's; without Iron it won't help them until they have Invention.

Did Xerxes build a GA inducing Wonder? His research is impressive for wartime.

 

[Bucephalus]

Right, I've only time for a quick post so I'll stick to the one subject:

The mm of The Hague, Amsterdam, and Rotterdam can be improved upon; if Amsterdam and The Hague are mm'ed to exactly 10 shields each, Rotterdam can pick up an extra shield, giving us 4 turn Swords - and growth - instead of 5 turns and a five shield overrun (it's possible in two turns of growth it will be able make ten shields, though it will lose one to waste so I'll need to play around with the mm to be certain).

DWetzel, this is fairly straightforward if you temporarily remove all citizens, then replace them one at a time, starting with Amsterdam, then The Hague, and lastly Rotterdam.

If you have any problems doing it, let me know, and I'll post some screenies - be aware though, it wouldn't be until tonight (my time).

I'll post later regarding strategic and other considerations.

 

[templar_x]

Sure we can. Welcome templar_x! I'll put you at the end of the roster.

great. only acknowledge this and follow the game for now.
guess this means i am on deck now. before i take it i will post some questions in order to grow into the strategy of this game. (that would be: winning, right? )

 

[DWetzel]

I left both Amsterdam and The Hague making 10 shields apiece, so there is no reason that they shouldn't now - I'll d/l the save and take a look.

I see no reason to panic at the Persians reaching the MA's; without Iron it won't help them until they have Invention.

Did Xerxes build a GA inducing Wonder? His research is impressive for wartime.

I'm pretty sure that one or both of them grew into their extra shield. I'll look at the MMing during dinner, but please do post your suggested screen shots.

And yes, Persia should have had a wonder-induced GA, I think. Pyramids are still industrious, yes? If so, that plus either the GLib (Scientific) or the MoM (Sci/Sea) would be GA-inducing for them. Whenever they built the first of GLib + MoM would initiate their Golden Age.

A couple of random thoughts which are brought to mind by this:

1. We will want to be in a position to capture AND HOLD Perseopolis, at all costs, when the time comes. I'm very concerned about culture flipping there; it may mean that this will need to be the last city we capture or very close to it. I'd appreciate input on this, but we need to plan accordingly.

2. The tourist income from those three wonders will be very VERY nice down the line. Of course, who knows if we need that. But it's 750 BC and they already have all three--which means that they should start kicking out SOME cash in 250 AD at the latest (and much earlier for Pyramids).

3. If I'm not mistaken, capturing Perseopolis will give us an Agricultural wonder (Pyramids) and a seafaring wonder (MoM). Capturing these will not yield a GA--but ANY wonder we were to build after that would trigger a GA as I understand it. Which can be very useful, as hopefully we won't be initiating too many charges with Swiss Mercs.

 

[ThinkTank]

Looks like we're doing good. I'd like a few more catapults for our attack force.

If we dogpile the Persians then we should stay at war until our alliances expire, or longer. So it will not be a rinse and repeat war. I think this is fine, the Persian territory east of Amsterdam is good and it will give us a nice addition to our core. We probably need to raze and replace to avoid flips.

When should we attack? I'd say soon. Acquire republic, do the tech trades, revolt, after the revolt cash rush some cats, and attack.

I'm not sure about making Utrecht shield productive. Looks like our new eastern towns will be better for that.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, here is the necessary micromanagement to get eight shields out of Rotterdam:

 

[DWetzel]

OK, here is the necessary micromanagement to get eight shields out of Rotterdam:

I can probably figure out the rest, but you whiffed on that last picture, I think.

 

[Bucephalus]

I can probably figure out the rest, but you whiffed on that last picture, I think.

Damn, sorry.

That was a different screenie for a dotmap I'm just preparing; but yeah, you should be able to figure out the Rotterdam by default.

Edit: It's fixed, now.

 

[Bucephalus]

I'm in broad agreement with TT - I think 10 more turns should see us at the gates of the first Persian city.

We have the necessary swords to go now, IMO, but I'd like to see a similar number remain at home to counter any threat from Hiawatha, and I would also like to see a few more Cats in the stack.

I've attached a dotmap that shows where I would suggest we place our new cities; if DWetzel can have a stack in place on the border with Tyre (probably on the the Northern-most dot)by the end of his turns, Templar X would have a free run at first Tyre, and then cut South to raze Arbela. Removing those two towns will give room for the three I've proposed.

I don't think we can make concrete plans beyond that until we bust the fog over Persia, but I have an idea regarding the Persopolis problem. It depends on where Pasagarde is but if it becomes strategically necessary to take Persopolis earlier than we would like, then why not gift it away? We could keep it for one turn to get any benefits from the GLib, then give the city to Hiawatha; if it flips to Persia, we'll just take it back, if it doesn't we'll take it back from Hiawatha at our leisure.

As far as govt is concerned, I'd say Monarchy is the one for this; as Overseer pointed out, the tech pace doesn'r really matter at the minute - we have all we need to do the job at hand - and I don't think we can spare the shields for Markets right now, so WW would be an issue in Republic.

We definitely need at least two Settlers to go with the stack, whether we whip or rush them, preferably three.

 

[ThinkTank]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Monarchy is fine. Looks like the green Iroquois lands up N look like future farm lands.

 

[DWetzel]

So, swords and a few cats, stacked for battle. I can arrange that. Just as well that I get to do the war-prep and not the actual fighting. That tends to go poorly for me.

Points of action:

1. Get Republic.
2. Make tech trades as I outlined above to get Construction and Currency, and get into the Middle Ages. Thoughts on what to research after that?
3. Revolt.
4. Accumulate as many swords as possible, along with a few cats and 2-3 settlers, at northernmost red dot for death to Persians.

Optional that I think are good ideas:

1. Settle city SSW of The Hague as a fishing village (will build harbor).
2. Develop Utrecht somewhat further (there are some forests there that look very choppable to me).


I do not have the save handy (at work), but we have two settlers already produced, right (stationed in towns)? If so, I think I will whip one off in Groningen on growth and then revolt, unless there is a compelling reason to do it before then.

 

[Bucephalus]

I meant to mention earlier - I'm wondering where that Iroquois stack is going? They are not at war with anyone, but that's a fairly big stack; my best guess is they are going for Ragnor again, but I advise caution for a couple of turns DWetzel - maybe shuffle a few units around to the NE to protect our flank.

 

[DWetzel]

Duly noted.

I will probably play in about 3 hours, unless I hear objections.

 

[Spoonwood]

Revolt after you trade for Monarchy, right?

2. The tourist income from those three wonders will be very VERY nice down the line. Of course, who knows if we need that. But it's 750 BC and they already have all three--which means that they should start kicking out SOME cash in 250 AD at the latest (and much earlier for Pyramids).

Doesn't corruption imply that you won't get much of that tourist income???

 

[DWetzel]

We would not get it all (barring a palace jump!) but would get a decent but of it.

 

[Bucephalus]

We would not get it all (barring a palace jump!) but would get a decent but of it.

Doesn't corruption imply that you won't get much of that tourist income???

It might make an acceptable FP position, if we get a MGL during the fighting.

 

[TheOverseer714]

The Iroquois bear watching, thats for sure. 10+ Archers moving usually means a war in the making. Fortunately, they haven't hooked up Iron, so if we're their target, we aren't instantly dead. On the trade possibilities, if we can get Construction from France for Republic, then Currency from the Vikings for Construction, then Monarchy for Republic from the Inca, we will be even with everyone but Persia. Literature and our cash can be additional trade-bait. Actually a pretty decent tech trade situation, thanks to ThinkTank's previous trading round. The micromanagement was as good as I could do, definitely not my strong suit, hopefully I didn't mess anything up too badly. Good luck, DWetzel, trade well.

 

[DWetzel]

Starting in a little while. Wish me lucks!