TT01: Beating Demigod

[Bucephalus]

Because we cannot build these once we can build swords? Unless we do the connect-disconnect thingy.

Rather impossible with iron hooked up, no?

Doh! Still, I'd also rather see Swords as MP's.

 

[TheOverseer714]

The war goes well, too bad about the trade rep, but it couldn't be helped. I guess the challenge is to kill all the witnesses before the gendarmes arrive. That can be arranged Looks like Persia may soon be horseless after Bactra falls, which should further hasten their demise. How soon do we make peace with the Iros, since we achieved our goals there? It would be nice to focus on wiping out Persia and preparing to launch on the Vikings. Well-played, templar

 

[templar_x]

TheOverseer - thanks.
it was much more different from a single game than i would have believed.

I'll hazard a guess:

He's refering to your avatar and my user name, and I'm guessing he's Greek. Right, Templar?

no. i´m not greek.
closest to being greek, i had a so-called "humanistic" education, i.e. learnt ancient greek and latin long long ago. but it is more about interest in history.

i refered to bucephalus´ user name, right, and the fact that we together defeat the persians. just like Alexander the Great did conquer persia on the back of Bucephalus, his special horse.

they built monuments to the honors of this horse - let´s try to live up to that

 

[ThinkTank]

tt, that he is here to bring you luck for your sg.

He is without a doubt the best player in this SG and I'm glad he joined us in this game.

bucephalus was the horse alexander rode in his wars against the persians. since alexander is not in this game, i think it is alright we borrowed him

i.e. learnt ancient greek and latin long long ago.

Me too, and I knew this, but forgot that I knew this. "I once knew this" or something like that.

About the game: I'm a bit worried about the tech situation. Consider this: we will likely clear out continent fast. This puts us in a sort of akward position as a tech broker: we'll have a lot of customers (on the other continent), but we are killing our suppliers (on this continent) fast. And vice versa, the AIs on our continent will not be able to pay any useful money for techs that are researched first on the other continent.

So what I see in our future is first, we will need to do self research, once we have reduced all AIs on our own continent to dirt. We need infrastructure for that, libs in our good towns, farms in the conquered land. Second, we'll want to slow down the research pace on the other continent. That will mean instigating war, possibly after gifting our main allies to tech parity, and keeping it fueled. Basically, we want to organize a balance of power over there which is bad for their research rate.

Short term: (1) Harrass the Iros a bit more until they want to give a tech for peace, then make peace. (2) Finish the Persians.

 

[DWetzel]

So what I see in our future is first, we will need to do self research, once we have reduced all AIs on our own continent to dirt. We need infrastructure for that, libs in our good towns, farms in the conquered land. Second, we'll want to slow down the research pace on the other continent. That will mean instigating war, possibly after gifting our main allies to tech parity, and keeping it fueled. Basically, we want to organize a balance of power over there which is bad for their research rate.

To this end, would we want to consider DOWing France (after our tech for their gpt deal expires, of course) and allying in Inca/America (with peace treaties tied in), giving them techs as part of the deal? That would seem to be an effective way to do all of the above in one fell swoop.

 

[templar_x]

i agree with tt´s tech analysis. in fact, this situation is very similar to my gotm81. so i, too, think we´ll have to gift the AI up in order to make them research their typical techs (hopefully not always and all the same ones ) to get anything out of our broker situation. plus self research via libs, varsities and science farms. therefore we should keep that pace in settling or even speed up, as i believe that persia will completely break soon. plant the fp, build that 2nd pseudo-core and beyond the line of total corruption just ICS. there´s good lands for this in the very south.

i´m not so sure about the alliance idea on the other continent. france may be a sleeping tiger. their military seems to be astonishingly weak now, but their economy is strong and they have the techs they need to crush the incas as their neighbours. the yanks are far away and weak, i fear the indios would be lost to colonizing french. history always repeats itself, no? and i´d prefer survival of all three of them.

for persepolis, i think the geography makes it rather feasible for us to hold it. i´d set it on diet after capture and keep troops outside of their city walls. any time it flips, retake it. there shouldn´t be too much cp from that vike city there yet, and soon we´ll have to take it anyway. probably with pikes on hills

really, for that point of time all i want more from the Iros is that gems city. there won´t be any tech left for them to give us in a few turns... better get a few places for free (chondote was already offered).

 

[Bucephalus]

He is without a doubt the best player in this SG.

Now you tell me!

We're doomed, I tell you, doomed!

About the game: I'm a bit worried about the tech situation. Consider this: we will likely clear out continent fast. This puts us in a sort of akward position as a tech broker: we'll have a lot of customers (on the other continent), but we are killing our suppliers (on this continent) fast. And vice versa, the AIs on our continent will not be able to pay any useful money for techs that are researched first on the other continent.

So what I see in our future is first, we will need to do self research, once we have reduced all AIs on our own continent to dirt. We need infrastructure for that, libs in our good towns, farms in the conquered land. Second, we'll want to slow down the research pace on the other continent. That will mean instigating war, possibly after gifting our main allies to tech parity, and keeping it fueled. Basically, we want to organize a balance of power over there which is bad for their research rate.

Short term: (1) Harrass the Iros a bit more until they want to give a tech for peace, then make peace. (2) Finish the Persians.

To this end, would we want to consider DOWing France (after our tech for their gpt deal expires, of course) and allying in Inca/America (with peace treaties tied in), giving them techs as part of the deal? That would seem to be an effective way to do all of the above in one fell swoop.

i agree with tt´s tech analysis....think we´ll have to gift the AI up in order to make them research their typical techs

I believe that we are best served by a slow tech pace on the other continent, and to that end, I believe it was a mistake to trade Literature in the last set; Libraries will only speed things up over there, and it was a monopoly optional tech which would have had value as trade bait.

I think, for the reasons expessed by TT, our opportunties to play 'trade-broker' will become increasingly limited; I'm afraid that it is a natural consequence of our warmaking, and is to be expected - in fact if AI research doesn't slow, we are doing something wrong.

We are lucky with the random AI on the other continent - if the AI plays two other civs as badly as it plays America and Inca, then I'm a Dutchman. I don't think it will be too difficult to stay in touch with them tech-wise, and there are still techs left for us to extort during peace negotiations on this continent - remember, shortly that will be our only way of getting gpt deals (on this continent, at least).

I'm completely in favour of stirring up war over there, but I'm also mindful of what templar said about upsetting the balance of power. I haven't yet had a chance to study the save so I can't express a solid opinion, but I'm guessing Inca/America against France would be the way to go.

Since we cannot be certain of another MGL, let's be sure to take good care of our Army - it's real use to us will be it's ability to land unopposed on the Beta continent.

 

[templar_x]

lit would have been around on the other continent anyways. it was only a matter of a turn or two, i guess. the AIs were willing to give less and less money every turn, in my experience a clear sign they were researching it themselves and calculating their discount in.
so in order to get anything for our last multiply tradeable tech, i gave them lit for that little money they had.

 

[Bucephalus]

lit would have been around on the other continent anyways. it was only a matter of a turn or two, i guess. the AIs were willing to give less and less money every turn, in my experience a clear sign they were researching it themselves and calculating their discount in.
so in order to get anything for our last multiply tradeable tech, i gave them lit for that little money they had.

Fair enough.

 

[Bucephalus]

Since we cannot be certain of another MGL, let's be sure to take good care of our Army - it's real use to us will be it's ability to land unopposed on the Beta continent.

Actually, there is a more pressing use for it.

I think it would be a good idea to consider a way to engineer war with the Vikings, and then send the Army to pillage those two Iron sources; assuming they are both close to being connected (a reasonable assumption, I think), Ragnar wil have Pikes to defend with, and - once Peace breaks out - Iron may be exported to Persia, with all that that implies.

If it's not possible, or not politically expedient to DOW Vikings, then I suggest using the Army to pillage around Persopolis to cut off all trade routes.

 

[templar_x]

you assume we will not be able to take and hold persepolis?

 

[Bucephalus]

you assume we will not be able to take and hold persepolis?

No, it's not that.

If you pillage the roads around a civ's capital it cannot trade resources, as you may know; it may be several turns until Persoplis falls, and it should be pillaged in the meantime lest we find it defended by Pikes and Immortals - a whole new ballgame for Swords.

 

[templar_x]

i see your point but would be very surprised if this plan B would be needed. i am pretty convinced TT will have got us the GL in 3-5 turns.

 

[Bucephalus]

i see your point but would be very surprised if this plan B would be needed. i am pretty convinced TT will have got us the GL in 3-5 turns.

My original point holds, though - that Iron needs to be disconnected, one way or another.

I don't want to see Zerks protected by Pikes.

 

[ThinkTank]

I'm in turn 1 and we have our second MGL. In the IBT Persopolis completed the Great Wall. Basra has been razed. What to do with the MGL? We have several options I think: Heroic Epic, Foreign Palace (both 200s), and 2nd army. The first two are not so big on shields, and they are small wonders so not contested. I'm inclined to a 2nd army, but let me have your votes please.

 

[Bucephalus]

Army, no doubt.

It might be worth trying to guess-timate how soon we might acquire Feudalism - a MedInf Army would be worth a short wait, maybe.

 

[DWetzel]

Personally, my first reaction was the FP--the reduction in corruption empire-wide could be very very useful... but given that we'd want that in the Perseopolis region (as in, IN it), I'm not opposed to a second army instead.

I do think that we need to try to get a start on the FP sooner rather than later, such that one of those new towns (roughly in the area of where we replace Bactra, maybe) ought to start on it right away.

If we go for an army, I definitely think the NEXT leader will be best used for the FP.

 

[Bucephalus]

If we go for an army, I definitely think the NEXT leader will be best used for the FP.

I disagree.

In a game like this military units come first in order of importance, particularly now we are in the ascendancy - a third Army would be a killer, and allow construction of the 'Pentagon', a very nice position to be in before we invade overseas. Furthermore, AA warfare such as we are engaged in, involves many battles and many unit promotions - our chances of another MGL for the FP are high.

 

[ThinkTank]

Army, no doubt.

It might be worth trying to guess-timate how soon we might acquire Feudalism - a MedInf Army would be worth a short wait, maybe.

Our force that destoyed Bactra nees to heal. 3 turns I guess, the army is at 4hp, meaning that there are 2 redlined swords in there, which afaik recover at 1hp/turn in a town without a rax. In the healing time the stack can be reinforced. Then walk to Persepolis (3 turns), conquer it (1 turn), after which the GL is ours and 1 turn later the techs will flow in, including feudalism. That's 8 turns. This is the best case, conquering may take longer.
If we form an army now then that army can go take Persepolis while the other one heals, this will probably mean Persepolis is ours 2 turns earlier.

 

[Bucephalus]

hmm... seems a shame to miss out on an MedInf Army, just for the sake of two turns....

I'd say that if you can manage without it, it would be worth the delay in filling it. Your call, though.