TT01: Beating Demigod

[templar_x]

Offensive stack in position at Trondheim - Three Armies, 8 Maces, 2 Crusaders, and a few Cavs - if templar has the patience to wait for the cannons to arrive, it should be enough.

does anyone happen to know this: does the defense bonus when attacking across a river apply for bombardment as well?

 

[TheOverseer714]

Pillaging sounds good, since they have the makings of a runaway AI. I think The Inca might be the better horse to back, Abe seems especially wussified on this map. Going to war with America might also be a way to get a base over there, also.

 

[DWetzel]

does anyone happen to know this: does the defense bonus when attacking across a river apply for bombardment as well?

Erm, uh... now that you mention it, no idea!

 

[Bucephalus]

does anyone happen to know this: does the defense bonus when attacking across a river apply for bombardment as well?

Yes, I think anything that increases the defensive bonus applies.

 

[Bucephalus]

Swiss mercenary army? Or are we totally certain that a cavalry army will not be attacked?

Absolutely certain.

 

[Bucephalus]

got it.


did you see any Viking two-movers in your turns?

No, but I was seeing AC's earlier in the set, and I can't remember when the SoZ obsoletes.

is it worth to us to invest 88g to find out whether they have their GA? i assume, they have it, because their progress is incredible.

We can deduce that without spending the money; check which Wonders they have built, and if we make peace with Inca (I see no purpose in a continued alliance with 'Abe the Lame') see if they are at war with France.

after liberation of our continent, i guess we want to make peace and cash in whatever Ragnar is willing to give. that solves the Banking issue.

I'm wondering whether we should take Ragnor's island first; once the capital moves there he will have a new core. He'll never be dangerous, but will continue to have the ability to build Zerks, which will tie down defenders in coastal area's.

otherwise, for research: at first view i´m happy with DWetzel´s proposed research path. imo only self-research from now on, and beating techs out of AIs. there´s practically no one but the French to trade with, and we won´t want them to be even faster.

Pretty much agree, though I don't think a ToE pre-build is necessary; nothing beyond RP's is remotely necessary - Cav Armies + Artillery = Game Over.

i agree with the pillaging army in this game and am convinced it won´t be attacked. i´d land it on a mountain, though, and bring a 4th cav to join it the turn after.

The only way it will be attacked is if it is sufficiently damaged to be seen as vulnerable; the only likelihood of that happening is if they hit it with Arty, so make sure to end a pillaging turn not-adjacent to a city. Since we can rush Armies, let's send a couple and pillage them back to the Stone Age.

 

[barbslinger]

does anyone happen to know this: does the defense bonus when attacking across a river apply for bombardment as well?

Not when attacking, only on defense.

 

[DWetzel]

SoZ expires on Metallurgy I believe, so it is no good to us but I am pretty sure Vikings are still not there.

Of course, without ivory, it's moot.

 

[templar_x]

Originally Posted by templar_x
does anyone happen to know this: does the defense bonus when attacking across a river apply for bombardment as well?

Yes, I think anything that increases the defensive bonus applies.

Not when attacking, only on defense.

results: Buce yes, barbslinger no, if i get that right... okaaaaay.

so i still don´t know for sure, but i stand stunned - to see barbslinger reply is close to talking to the ghost of Hamlet´s father.
i have not yet seen you in action myself, but from some threads i browsed i deducted that you obviously have a reputation. and a cool avatar+signature, btw. appreciate you came around.

to ask my original question another way: would you ever, or especially in this case, use another turn to move the cannons across to the enemy city´s river side before bombardment/attack?

 

[Bucephalus]

to ask my original question another way: would you ever, or especially in this case, use another turn to move the cannons across to the enemy city´s river side before bombardment/attack?

I would; as I understand it, chance of a successful hit is to do with the ratio between bombard strength and defensive strength, the same principle that causes Cats to lose their effectiveness once they face muskets. Since the river adds a defensive bonus, I see no reason why it would not have an effect.

 

[DWetzel]

More to the point, I don't think one more turn is going to hurt us much, so we may as well not risk anything.

 

[DWetzel]

I'm wondering whether we should take Ragnor's island first; once the capital moves there he will have a new core. He'll never be dangerous, but will continue to have the ability to build Zerks, which will tie down defenders in coastal area's.

I was originally thinking that--but we don't exactly have much of a navy in place (understatement). While their core is pretty weak, we would want to take the armies and some artillery along for the ride I'd think.

Given that that island is almost entirely tundra, how afraid are we of them kicking out any significant number of 'zerks?

Man, Buce and I have both switched positions on this.

More to the point, we may want to make peace with the Vikings and finish off the Iroquois during that time.

 

[Bucephalus]

I left some Caravels in place, ready to upgrade to galleons - it's a 1-turn crossing, so we have plenty enough navy.

Even one Zerk is a potential nuisance - we would need to protect all of our coastal cities - and France would certainly ally them. It would take half-a-dozen turns or so to make them a 1CC, and Banking is still there to be extorted.

 

[DWetzel]

I left some Caravels in place, ready to upgrade to galleons - it's a 1-turn crossing, so we have plenty enough navy.

Even one Zerk is a potential nuisance - we would need to protect all of our coastal cities - and France would certainly ally them. It would take half-a-dozen turns or so to make them a 1CC, and Banking is still there to be extorted.

OK, as long as we have enough transport capabilities. How much do you think we need to send over?

 

[templar_x]

and that one city being Chondote? i strongly support that plan. we most likely will neither be able to build banks before that nor make it to IA.

 

[Bucephalus]

OK, as long as we have enough transport capabilities. How much do you think we need to send over?

I think our three Armies and a few cannon should suffice.

 

[Bucephalus]

Man, Buce and I have both switched positions on this.

Maybe you should be less persuasive with your arguements......

 

[templar_x]

it´s 12.05 a.m here.... a good time for a gentleman to post the save for DWetzel to take over when noon had been appointed. have fun.

preflight
everything looks fine, goals are discussed, i have my last night when i can play this before my holidays... after a thorough look at everything i start.

Spoiler :

actions in last turn, 650AD

well, it was not that last wonder build that gave the French their GA – JS only works for religious tribes. no other wonder they own fits their industrious trait, either. means no GA.
ok, i realize Buce didn´t like my dotmap for our settling plan. then check for New Leerdam and am positively surprised that this town suffers only slightly more than 50% corruption. change it to court.
notice there must be another island west of the former Port island – the Incas have built a city on it and i can see the borders.

there are two wounded Vike muskets fortified in the jungle i can reach with 3 artillery units... better try that than wait for the jungle to kill them? ok – 2 out of 3 hit, both are down to 2 hp
e cav kills 2hp vet musket, -1hp
vet cav kills 2nd 2hp vet musket, -2hp

move some mp around
mm, send citizens in Groningen and Maastricht back to work
change Buceadvice from court at 89% to cannon, 8 shields lost
can get it from +72gpt to +108gpt and still Magnetism in 3

diplo:
i want to make peace with the Incas asap and set up something different before we invade the other continent

ibt
Americans and Incas make peace. this time the Indians won... at least a few towns.
Vikes move jerks around,
one jerk runs out of Alesund and takes New Holwerd!
that Vike caravel in the east between our continent and Ragnar island against all odds destroys our caravel, loses only 1 hp and even promotes :argh:
France comes to renew peace – is renegotiate deals on? no, they just came by themselves – i accept
0-2

660ad (1)
Eindhoven settler – settler
Delft cav – cav
Leerdam cav – cannon (why did it build a reg cav??)
Buceadvice cannon – cannon

cav kills reg zerk @ Alesund, retakes city -1hp
e knight kills reg berJerk outside Zwolle, flawless
3 cannons hit only once, suspend attack on Allegheny for this turn and bring in more forces
e MI dies to a reg musket @ Centralia
vet MI kills musket, takes Centralia, -1hp + promotes to elite
vet cav kills vet musket @ Aarhus, -2hp
vet cav kills reg musket, -1hp, and razes Aarhus, gain 2 workers and bring settler in position
7-3

peace with Inca, he givs 14g for it
i hesitate to declare against Yanks as they move a galley along our coast
too many Vike ships around for my taste

ibt
zerk walks into Hilversum from the caravel @ the south island
Persepolis cannon – cannon

670ad (2)
Amsterdam cav – cav
Pasagardae cav & crusader – cav
Delft goes into disorder – dunno why, checked it before
Breda cav – cav
Den Helder cav – SM
New Breda cannon – cannon

cannons go 1 out of 3 against Allegheny
vet cav redlines, but kills vet musket
vet cav kills vet musket, -2hp, reveals jerk
e knight kills reg jerk, -3hp, resistance stinks, set it to worker
e knight retreats to reg jerk outside Holwerd
vet cav kills reg jerk, but redlines
11-3

found New Roosendaal – settler for now (but only over 60% corrupt)
found Amsterdam2 – wealth
found Rotterdam1 – caravel
change Rotterdam and Amsterdam to markets

ibt
Vikes move around their ships
the ship out of Grand River took the garrison musket away, leaving only a spear, i never saw the AI do that before
get Magnetism (makes GL obsolete) – choose ToG
nothing else

680ad (3)
Tempremiere settler - settler

e sword kills reg spear in Grand River, -1hp
vet MI redlines but kills 2nd reg spear and takes Grand River

8 out of 10 cannons hit @ Trondheim
1st mace army kills ¾ musket, loses 7 (!) hp, prom to elite
2nd mace army kills ¾ musket, -3hp
attacks a second time, kills ¾ musket, -1hp
vet cav kills 2/3 musket, -2hp
vet cav retreats, defender no scratch
vet cav retreats, defender no scratch
e cav kills 2/3 musket, no sratch
vet crusader kills 2/4 musket, no scratch
e MI dies to reg jerk, jerk -1hp :argh:
e MI kills jerk, redlined, and takes Trondheim with Oracle and SoZ, harbour intact, sell market

4 out of 7 arty units hit @ Alesund
vet cav redlines, but kills 2hp vet pike
vet cav kills reg pike and Alesund taken, all citizens resist - wealth

reg cav loses to vet berJerk in Hilversum (regulars suck)
vet MI redlines but kills berJerk, retake Hilversum
23-5

found The Hague2 – settler
found Utrecht2 – settler
shows 90% corruption on CA2, so ICS from here on
found Groningen2 – settler
rush galleon in Titidemigodograd (should have done that in IBT)
rush frigate in New Zwolle
rush privateer in Middelburg
mm to get ToG in 5 @ +86gpt

ibt
everyone moves ships, French caravel appears in the NE

690ad (4)
New Zwolle frigate – settler
Groningen cannon – settler
New Rotterdam cannon – settler
Middelburg privateer – galleon
Titi galleon – galleon
French build Newton´s and complete Shake´s
everyone but the Incas now has Chemistry

cannons go 2 out of 3 @ Mauch Chunk
e cav kills 1st musket, -2hp
e cav kills 2nd musket, -3hp, and takes the city with a bunch of slaves – worker
the Vikes are off the continent

vet privateer captures Yankee vet galley @Middleburg
26-5

found Arnhem2 - settler
found Eindhoven2 - settler
DOW America

ibt
ships moving

700ad (5)
embassy with Incas
join them in against Abe for gems
land 2nd mace army on Vike island
found Maastricht2 – wealth
by accident i pillage one of our gems we are not and will not ever work it, but still...

710ad (6)
Rotterdam market – cav
Leiden cav – cav
French complete Magellan´s

found Harlem2
land 1st swords army to bring Ragnar presents

ibt
Vikes move 2 jerks on their island
Incas take two American cities, St Louis and Buffalo

720ad (7)
Pasargadae cav + crusader – market
Delft cav – cav
Arnhem cav – cav
New Utrecht cannon – aqueduct (for now)

privateer sinks the 2nd last Vike unit in our waters @ New Groningen
found Holwerd2 – galleon
land some more units at Vike island, attack next turn
bombard Vike vet galley, -2hp

730ad (8)
get ToG, start Banking for now
Lauwersoog cav – cav
Sidon cannon – cannon
New Dortrecht cannon – settler
Coimbra settler – settler
Breda cav – cav
Den Helder SM – SM

cannons go 1 out of 4 on Birka
1st mace army kills musket, flawless
kills the second musket
they had moved a ship into the city the turn before, now only a worker is visible as a defender
1st sword army attacks, defending zerk takes 5hp off before it dies, take Birka with harbour

2nd mace army attacks Molden, kills 1st musket
vet cav attacks musket, retreats
vet cav kills musket, takes Molden

at this point i have to make a tech decision, as we will not make Ragnar a OCC in 4 turns and extort banking from him. we could easily self research it with a big surplus... but still it is 4 turns lost towards steam in my eyes. so i make this trade with the Incas

give chemistry and 77g for banking
everybody else has chemistry already

it turns out that the French do not have any IA tech yet! they preferred to research all the optionals, typical for France
mm, steam power in 7 at plus 12gpt

31-5

ibt
as expected, a berjerk takes Molden on ibt, i had left it empty when i saw the caravel and could not reach it
they move a 2nd jerk in
then Jean d´Arc is very upset because France is not even #2 in the world, because Bette Franke won the beauty contest and an Indio transvestite beats her to silver
her scientists gave her a lot of comfort by researching nationalism for her so it might not be too hard

740ad (9)
e knight kills 1st jerk in Molden, redlines
e knight kills 2nd jerk, /3hp
found Middelburg2, worker

33-5

750ad (10)
the Americans land a single knight next to Evora
lots of resistors give up

vet cav DIES to reg Yankee knight :grumble:
vet MI kills knight

4 cannons at Odense have a perfect game, redlining a musket and a spear
e cav kills 1hp musket, flawless
e cav kills 1hp spear, -3hp!
take Odense with barracks intact

now i can reveal the last tiles from the fow, showing that the Vikes have not got iron or horses connected on their island
i misclicked and now a stack with 4 cavs stands one tile short in the midth of Vike island, including a wounded unit. it should not do anything though, because their military is practically nonexisting now.

some shuffling, some moves left to next player on purpose.

mm not completed and i left quite a few moves for the next player, especially workers and some troop shuffling. the galleon @ the Vike island has enough movement to load/unload in Holwerd2. some settlers are brought in place.
i really hope there was no major weed involved in the last 2 turns. i finished my turns around 7:15 a.m. this morning and became slightly tired by the end...

notes to the next player:

the Vikes are gassed, you will easily destroy them in the first 5 rounds. their cities only had two defenders at last, the new capital will have maybe 3-4. we have excess troops around. most likely there is nothing we could need available to extort from them, so no peace. i prepared a galleon for Chondote, just move a few cavs in. quite a few are used as garrison currently, so we could assign meaningful specialists.

a good number of cavs stands waiting for your orders at the Iro border in the north, too. 2 more turns in our pt and you can attack.

unfortunately i did not get us a cav army for use on French soil. either we send over another army, but they are of course less efficient and more prone to get attacked. or we wait for the army build to finish in 14 towns.

for diplo, now we will see if the Incas may become the ally we want. i have two ideas about this: either we simply join them in against the French whenever that is feasible to us. or, roughly 10-15 turns before we want to declare on them, we get the French in against the Yanks. that should be very feasible now that they want our luxes. (for all 4 of them we could even get a tech at some point, but i decided against that, as well as a lux barter deal.) then the moment they make peace and return their units through Inca lands, ally everyone against them – Yanks and Incas should be able to kill their units in the open.

guys, i will be in my holidays for the next 17 days. i wish you luck with this. but not too much, because i want to dent my teeth into some FRENCH TOAST when i return. so please keep them alive for that long if that is possible

good luck for the next sets, especially the invasion

 

[Bucephalus]

i realize Buce didn´t like my dotmap for our settling plan.

Actually, templar my computer doesn't run anything else when Civ and Civassist are running, so I couldn't access IE; and to be truthful, I forgot that you had made one. But it's fairly irrelevant where we put them at this stage, to be honest.

unfortunately i did not get us a cav army for use on French soil. either we send over another army, but they are of course less efficient and more prone to get attacked. or we wait for the army build to finish in 14 towns.

It can be cash rushed.

 

[templar_x]

It can be cash rushed.

we don´t have any cash