"Turkey to freeze EU ties if Cyprus gets EU presidency"

[christos200]

No, what I hate about Greece is that they continue to throw tantrums over Macedonia when they and in consequence the rest of us have enough problems already.

I try to protect greek culture and history from the fyromians.

Anyway. I hope turkey changes its position and join EU.

 

[Leoreth]

I try to protect greek culture and history from the fyromians.

We've been over this. They can't take anything away from you, everyone knows how ridiculous their claims are anyway. Just grow up about it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The present Honduran government was democratically elected on open and fair elections supervised by international bodies, and is recognised by everybody that matters. The "human rights record" is not in any way, shape or form comparable to Turkey.

It is actually much worse, as are many right-wing democracies in that region.

Human rights problems reported included the following: unlawful killings by police and government agents, which the government took some steps to prosecute; arbitrary and summary killings committed by vigilantes and former members of the security forces; harsh prison conditions; violence against detainees; corruption and impunity within the security forces; lengthy pretrial detention and failure to provide due process of law; politicization, corruption, and institutional weakness of the judiciary; corruption in the legislative and executive branches; government restrictions on the recognition of some civil society groups; violence and discrimination against women; child prostitution and abuse; trafficking in persons; discrimination against indigenous communities; violence and discrimination against persons based on sexual orientation; ineffective enforcement of labor laws; and child labor.

Really? Nobody complains about Venezuela or Russia? Or are they islamic too?

I clearly stated above that "leftist" governments are typically only criticized in this manner, but that even rightist predominately Muslim governments are also included in the list of "evil" countries. But there are indeed far worse democracies out there.

Of course, in this particular case it was largely due to Turkey finally standing up against continuing Israeli atrocities including the murder of their own citizens, instead of largely ignoring them for so long for political reasons. The only negative comments about Turkey in this forum until recently were in regard to the way they continue to deal with Kurdish terrorism in their own country. Suddenly, they have been elevated to pariah status along with Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and now Egypt.

 

[Winner]

I try to protect greek culture and history from the fyromians.

Anyway. I hope turkey changes its position and join EU.

Let me get this straight - the name Macedonia, a poor country of 2 million people, chose for itself is a threat to Greek culture and history, whereas the membership of Turkey, a country that occupied and colonized Greece for centuries and which also ended millennia-old Greek presence in Asia Minor through mass ethnic cleansing, isn't?

Riiiight

 

[Leoreth]

Seems like Turkey doesn't want to give up on joining the EU:

At the start of his four-day visit to Germany, Turkish President Abdullah Gül said his country will not be satisfied with anything less than full membership in the European Union.

Source.

 

[Winner]

Even when they affirm their will to join the EU, they make it sound uncompromising and boastful, as if it was them dictating terms to us, subservient Europeans.

Someone really needs to tell them to behave or STFU, I am tired of this attitude. If we had said and done crap like this during our accession talks, we'd never have joined.

 

[christos200]

Let me get this straight - the name Macedonia, a poor country of 2 million people, chose for itself is a threat to Greek culture and history, whereas the membership of Turkey, a country that occupied and colonized Greece for centuries and which also ended millennia-old Greek presence in Asia Minor through mass ethnic cleansing, isn't?

Riiiight

Now that in the greek tv there are more turkish serials than greek serials, everyone loves turkey.

 

[Winner]

Well, I guess the Macedonians need to invest into their TV productions industry then

 

[Joecoolyo]

How Turkey handles its foreign relations has nothing to do with whether it is democratic or not. I was rather referring to the fact that Erdogan and his party are steadily destroying democracy inside Turkey.

This thread is about Turkey's foreign policy...

 

[christos200]

Well, I guess the Macedonians need to invest into their TV productions industry then

I sometimes i go in FYROM because they have cheap petrol while in greece the prices are very high.

 

[Leoreth]

Someone really needs to tell them to behave or STFU, I am tired of this attitude. If we had said and done crap like this during our accession talks, we'd never have joined.

True, and you're not even Muslim, so nobody would've come up with apologies for you

 

[luiz]

It is actually much worse, as are many right-wing democracies in that region.

Those are common traits to virtually all third-world nations. All of them were already in place when Zelaya was President. Or you think police brutality and child prostitution only begun now?

They have nothing to do with "right-wing" government. They are present in "left-wing" Brazil and Venezuela to much greater extents. So you have no point.

It is you who demonize anything and anyone slightly to the right of Chairman Mao, not the other way around.

I clearly stated above that "leftist" governments are typically only criticized in this manner, but that even rightist predominately Muslim governments are also included in the list of "evil" countries. But there are indeed far worse democracies out there.

Of course, in this particular case it was largely due to Turkey finally standing up against continuing Israeli atrocities including the murder of their own citizens, instead of largely ignoring them for so long for political reasons. The only negative comments about Turkey in this forum until recently were in regard to the way they continue to deal with Kurdish terrorism in their own country. Suddenly, they have been elevated to pariah status along with Iran, Venezuela, Russia, and now Egypt.

Yeah...

First I was only criticizing the Turkish government because they are "left-wing". Then I reminded you that they are right-wing. Now it's because they're muslims. Then I reminded you of Russia and Venezuela.

Now you say I am biased against "left-wing or muslim". Well, Putin is neither. He is a conservative and his party is center-right. And he surely is no muslim.

So make up your mind.

 

[Formaldehyde]

First I was only criticizing the Turkish government because they are "left-wing". Then I reminded you that they are right-wing. Now it's because they're muslims. Then I reminded you of Russia and Venezuela.

It was a general comment about turning the governments of some countries into pariahs based on their political leanings and whether or not they are predominately Muslim. There are many people in this forum who seem to share that view, and it was not directed at anybody in particular.

I made it quite clear twice already that I didn't think in any way that the current Turkish government was "left-wing".

I feel I am quite even-handed at which governments I "demonize". I find fault with any government which I feel oppresses anybody or doesn't have exceptional human rights records, and this includes Turkey, Venezuela, and Russia. My only real complaint is when these same human rights violations are largely ignored in countries which are presumably "allies" for whatever reason.

 

[NovaKart]

From my limited knowledge of Turkish politics what I have gathered is that it's difficult to separate Turkey into conservative or liberal or right wing or left wing. The secular parties like the CHP and MHP are not liberal. The MHP is actually kind of fascist. The AKP is a moderate Muslim party but many secular Turks say they aren't as moderate as they want people to believe. Either way they're hardly Muslim fanatics although Erdogan has made some comments like A Muslim can't committ genocide or something along those lines. The army is secular and has a bigger presence in Turkey than in many other places.

The real fundamentalist Islamic party in Turkey is Saadet but their influence is marginal. I think they probably have some rich supporters because their party headquarters is often prominently located in whatever city they're in but their support is very low.

I don't think Erdogan is pushing Turkey to a dictatorship. I guess you're talking about Ergenekon and I don't really know what to make of that mess, but politicaly motivated arrests and lack of freedom of speech isn't exactly a new thing in Turkey.

 

[Dachs]

I don't think Erdogan is pushing Turkey to a dictatorship. I guess you're talking about Ergenekon and I don't really know what to make of that mess, but politicaly motivated arrests and lack of freedom of speech isn't exactly a new thing in Turkey.

One of the best things about Turkey is the whole "deep state" thing. Just when you think it's just blowing smoke, they pull out something like Susurluk to keep you on your toes.

 

[Silurian]

Do they mean the setllers that came after the illegal invasion of cyprus or the original turkish minority in cyprus?

I ask because during british rule in cyprus more than 90% of cypriots wanted to unite with greece.

I dont say that there wasnt a turkish minority but how in the h*ll 90% of cypriots before the invasion wanted to join greece if there was a huge turkish minority?? ( Except if the turks in cyprus liked so much greece that wanted to join greece instead of turkey.)

Please provide a link to your 90% figure

In 1960, the last year for which there was an official census for the entire population of Cyprus, the island was home to 573,566 people. Official estimates held that there were 441,568 Greek Cypriots, 3,627 Armenians, 2,706 Maronites (in the future these two groups were to be counted as part of the Greek Cypriot community, according to the terms of the constitution of 1960), 103,822 Turkish Cypriots, and 24,408 others (mostly foreigners).

Source: U.S. Library of Congress

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/21.htm

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Do people think Turkish Cyprus is some sort of Islamic hellhole or something?

What would you do if you were about to be annexed by a right-wing military junta? Roll over?

 

[NovaKart]

I'd say it's pretty un-Islamic, it has casinos for one thing.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Which is why all the Greeks come over the border.

 

[Silurian]

Plus for the kebabs

I wonder what would happen if all the kebab shops in the UK closed and the owners went back to north Cyprus, would the Greeks be out numbered.