"Turkey to freeze EU ties if Cyprus gets EU presidency"

[Truronian]

Turkey is going to end up being the main player in the ME if they play their cards right.

It might even prove good for the newly emerging democracies in the area to have an established local democracy on friendly terms. Might help avoid the very real possibility of the new governments collapsing back into tyranny.

 

[RedRalph]

It might even prove good for the newly emerging democracies in the area to have an established local democracy on friendly terms. Might help avoid the very real possibility of the new governments collapsing back into tyranny.

Exactly. Once the Turks do decide to forget about Europe they will have more of a free hand in the ME and frankly, while Turkey isn't a country I want to live in, in many ways their model is superior to most of the ME.

 

[Winner]

Well, Turkey has a whole lot of new opportunities in the Middle East so this isn't surprising.

Actually, I don't really understand the Turkish strategy - so far it seems to consist of POing as many of their neighbours as possible.

Aside from the spat with Israel, which I might understand as a cynical ploy to boost their credentials, they've been largely unsuccessful in Syria and Iran, and Erdogan's recent visit in Egypt was... embarrassing to say the least. Neither Iran nor Egypt seem to be willing to let Turkey dominate the Mid East politics and neither is seeking to adopt the Turkish political model. And Iran now seems to have renewed its support for the Kurds.

And now this Cyprus thing that have already dragged in Israel, the EU, and maybe even Russia. Really, what the heck are they thinking? If you want to go into confrontation, albeit mainly a rhetorical one, you should pick one opponent, focus your efforts against him, and try to get others on your side. Trolling everybody at the same time will only leave you isolated.

 

[Leoreth]

Antagonizing Israel makes perfect sense from their point of view.

I agree that the timing to confront over the Cyprus issue was badly chosen, though.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Can't Westerners comprehend of anything other than "pro-Western democracy" and "Islamist dictatorship"

Well, some Westerners can. I would hope that those who think in such black and white terms represent a small minority of all Westerners. But the recent minaret issue in Switzerland and other similar acts suggest it may be a larger. There is a lot of Islamophobia in the West, especially since 9/11.

The conflict between Greece and Turkey goes back almost 100 years now. The last military conflict, which ended up splitting Cyprus in two, was a war with the Greek right-wing military junta in 1974. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is still not internationally recognized.

But I do agree that a disturbing number of Westerners do see any country where the majority of the citizens practice Islam as being a "dictatorship", no matter the actual situation. But it wasn't all that long ago that many Westerners saw the RCC in such terms. That the Pope was supposedly in control of any country which was predominately Catholic. There was even such discussion in the US as late as the 60s when JFK became president, but at least his election seemed to finally end it.

I guess some things never change. Religious differences seem to frequently provide an impetus to cast the other group as being "evil". It is apparently even true with a staunch NATO ally which helped to defeat the "evil" Soviet Union.

Trolling everybody at the same time will only leave you isolated.

Israel manages to pull that off by only "trolling" Muslims. Apparently, that is far more acceptable to at least some Westerners.

 

[Winner]

Antagonizing Israel makes perfect sense from their point of view.

I agree that the timing to confront over the Cyprus issue was badly chosen, though.

But I wonder what lead them to it. Was that just an oversight on their part, or a miscalculation? Did they think others would actually support them against Cyprus? Or did they see it as a continuation of the anti-Israel diplomatic offensive - that since Israel is involved in the gas drilling issue, others would fail to support Cyprus?

In any case, those in charge of Turkish foreign policy really need a break.

Wha... what am I saying! No, of course I don't want them to go - please continue, it's fun to watch! I wonder what they'll do next week. The way things are going, they'll probably invade a Greek island or sink a Bulgarian fishing boat...

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I hope they don't. Germany needs those islands as securities

 

[Winner]

Oh, I hope they don't. Germany needs those islands as securities

Exactly, it will drag Germany into the conflict too...

 

[Dreadnought]

Dangit, I thought I saw a glimmer of hope for Turkey when compared to the rest of the Middle East. I guess they're just degrading back into the Middle Eastern status quo.

 

[kronic]

But I do agree that a disturbing number of Westerners do see any country where the majority of the citizens practice Islam as being a "dictatorship", no matter the actual situation. But it wasn't all that long ago that many Westerners saw the RCC in such terms. That the Pope was supposedly in control of any country which was predominately Catholic. There was even such discussion in the US as late as the 60s when JFK became president, but at least his election seemed to finally end it.

Well, I don't. But I invite you to do some research on how Erdogan and his AKP treat those who aren't in line with them. That's hardly acceptable and has nothing to do with democracy, Western or not.

Can't Westerners comprehend of anything other than "pro-Western democracy" and "Islamist dictatorship"

There are all sorts of other dictatorships as well. Don't get me wrong. I view Western democracy more as a sort of a modern oligarchy but it's still way better than the other options currently around and I have little interest in giving such regimes any influence over what happens where I live. That's precisely what's at stake when we're talking about Turkish EU membership.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Ironically, democracy is what put Erdoğan and his party in power. And they even won the 2007 elections "making it the first time in 52 years that a party in power had increased its votes for a second term". And it happened yet again in 2011...

 

[Tahuti]

I guess some things never change. Religious differences seem to frequently provide an impetus to cast the other group as being "evil". It is apparently even true with a staunch NATO ally which helped to defeat the "evil" Soviet Union.

But the Soviet Union is no more, and so is much of Turkey's interest in cooperating with the USA.

Israel manages to pull that off by only "trolling" Muslims. Apparently, that is far more acceptable to at least some Westerners.

I hate to say that but of course that is. Most Westerners today don't associate Jews with crime and "self-segragration", but many will when it is about Muslims. They view their "struggle" as parallelling that with Israel, fighting against Muslim "savages" on land stolen from them, while being discredited as Neo-Fascists.

 

[amadeus]

For Turkey's sake, I hope the Greek Cypriots win.

 

[innonimatu]

Does it make any difference, Cyprus doing that?

And can anyone explain here why, in terms of internal turkish politics, doesn't Turkey just dump northern Cyprus? What the hell are they, as a nation, winning from keeping that thorn on their side? It's not quite as bad as Indonesia and Timor Leste, but I still don't see what Turkey won, and wins, by dragging on its proxy occupation of that piece of the island, instead or promoting a reasonable reunification plan. The way I see it the only winners are the brits who get to keep their huge bases unquestioned by cypriots for so log as this drags on...
So it must be something to do with internal turkish politics?

 

[Leoreth]

Good question. The only explanation I could imagine is that the Turkish Cypriots are a good tool to pander to Turkish nationalism.

 

[amadeus]

Another question is if the Turkish Cypriots want independence or autonomy, why are the Cypriot Greeks trying to stop them?

 

[kramerfan86]

Turkey really seems to pick the dumbest stances that stand to give them very little real world gain.

 

[Lone Wolf]

The way I see it the only winners are the brits who get to keep their huge bases unquestioned by cypriots for so log as this drags on...

I have an answer - a cynical, anti-imperialist answer! The British Government secretly bribes Turkey, so that Turkey continues supporting northern Cyprus, which focuses the Cypriots' attention away from these bases!

 

[Silurian]

We need our bases because our aircraft carriers will have no planes.

 

[dosed150]

well if turkey dont like how the eu works then tough, they dont have to join,

arent croatia and iceland meant to become members soon, better for the eu to concentrate on countries like that that arent causing trouble