US and British take action!

[Juize]

Originally posted by G-Man
I have one word for you - Iran. Iran was once a rich country with equall laws and with great support from the US. But the fanatics hated the US despite the fact that they helped them. And when the revoulution happened they burned US flags. And they supported and still support anti-American terror orgenizations. Bin Laden is in power because there are a lot of muslims that believe that the world should be ruled by Islam. And they will fight the US untill all of it's citiezens are either dead or muslim.

And even if you can somehow convince the Taliban to put Bin Laden on trial, they'll never convict a muslim because of what non-muslims are saying - and all information about Bin Laden comes from foreign agents inside his orgenization. And even if Bin Laden is convicted, do you think Al Qaida will stop working?

Hmmmm, If I have understanded correctly, Iran was a 'banana dictatorship',
such as cuba was, before revolution. Maybe that was just a leftist propaganda. Whatever.
I did not fought against these facts. I'm not stupid enough to talk things that I have not any idea.
But, you could ask yourself, G-Man, WHY did those organizations toke the power in Iran?
And the other thing, jesus, do you really think such organization as that will work
if it just spread lies without any proofs (they'll be lies if US will not do anything, well, stupid)
No way man, (you are a man aren't you :crazyeyes: ) People like me will ensure that.

 

[G-Man]

I think we're getting out of the subject... I know - let's play a little game called "If I was George Bush". What would you do if you were him?

 

[Ashoka]

If I could be so rude as to interject reality here - - NOTHING HAS F*****NG HAPPENED YET!!

(See, now - - you have made the Zenmaster resort to profanity. Bow your heads in shame.)

Even if there are Brit and US special forces in Afganistan - nothing indicates they have done a THING other than gather intelligence (ie- spying) trying to figure out where bin Laden is, where the Al Queda training camps are, etc. Though some of you may be tired of hearing it - -almost 7,000 civilians were TOASTED here - on a regular weekday morning, going to work like most of us do. This could have been YOUR father, mother, sibling or loved one. Just about ALL the US has done in the 'evil retaliation' so many of you are fumulating about is..... talk!! (Gee, what a concept) Almost the ENTIRE operation is being carried out by law enforcement agencies around the world, as they round up those connected to the attack or other terrorist activities.

WE are dealing with almost 7,000 dead - - - YOU are dealing with the US making comments you don't agree with. Who is responding in a more mature way, given those circumstances?

I think we're getting out of the subject... I know - let's play a little game called "If I was George Bush". What would you do if you were him?

G -

I think he is doing what he should, surprisingly (I voted for the Green party here last election.) However - I DO think the US and allies need to take out the Taliban. SO much direct conection between them and bin Laden. Additionally, their actions really show them to be the Islamic equivalent to the NAZI party.

More food for thought - - Pakistan has nukes - - the Taliban already threaten to bring down the current government of Pakistan and install a Taliban gov't - - just like in Afganistan.

Need one say more??

Ashoka

 

[Knight-Dragon]

I think Ashoka has it right, the US reaction has been very mild as of date, considering the carnage the terrorist inflicted. But I think some military action will have to take place soon though. We can't bloody wait forever for the Taliban to hand over Osama.

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by SKM
I think Ashoka has it right, the US reaction has been very mild as of date, considering the carnage the terrorist inflicted. But I think some military action will have to take place soon though. We can't bloody wait forever for the Taliban to hand over Osama.

Whatever, at least nobody can reveange against me for followin taleban
(or some muslim org., anyway) uhh, lets see...:
Reveange strike of reveange-strike which was a reveange-strike of WTC reveange-strike.

Ingenius, isn't it? :slay:

 

[G-Man]

Would you feel any better if it was
WTC and Pentagon - 7,000 dead
Chimical weapons - 50,000 dead
Biological weapons - 2,000,000 dead
Nuclear bombs - 100,000,000 dead

 

[Dell19]

Why do you two always have to turn these threads into a war zone...Maybe TF should create a new forum for Gman and Juize so that they can argue in peace...

 

[Ashoka]

Why do you two always have to turn these threads into a war zone...Maybe TF should create a new forum for Gman and Juize so that they can argue in peace...

No- but I think TF could consider some 'adult only' fora - or a restricted forum for those under 18.

(Hey - - wouldn't one of those awful Online Security Acts passed in the US over the last few years mandate some sort of 'protection' of minors from the evil speech of their elders?

Rather, protect us from hearing 14-year-olds rant abouth things they don't understand.

For Infinite Justice - - Ha Ha Ha Ha!)



Ashoka

 

[Sid]

It's a pity that some of you feel the need to attack the people who disagree with you, rather than addressing the argument. So what if Mikoyan is 14 years old? I wish I had his/her courage and ability to articulate when I was that age.

Some Americans miss the point. Many people like me are horrified at the number of people ALL OVER THE PLANET who suffer every day because we live in a greedy, materialistic world. I believe it is wrong to take the lives of innocent people in order to make a political point as happened in New York. However, I wish we devoted the same amount of energy and TV coverage and testosterone to solving the problems that terrorise simple people -- women and children mainly -- daily across the globe.

Do you play SMAC/AX or Civ2 to escape from the horrors of the world or to explore yourself and learn how a world might be better?

Sid

 

[floppa21]

I must agree with Ashoka on the age-restricted boards, but I don't know if it is a possibility, don't even know if TF would even CONSIDER it... Sid, ANYBODY can be brave and articulate on a computer. I said in another post, We're ALL Ladies' Men when we're in a chatroom.

Graeme, you right, I got worked up on Friday and shouldn't have talked trash to Mikoyan. Similar with Juize. Although that was farther back. (I have a short temper and am quick, instinctive with my words.) So apologies to the both of you.

Well Taliban said they know ***** Ladin's whereabouts... A few days ago, they "had no idea..." Maybe they're smartening up? Taliban aren't trustworthy, and should be destroyed. Interested to see what happens next.

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by floppa21
Well Taliban said they know ***** Ladin's whereabouts... A few days ago, they "had no idea..." Maybe they're smartening up? Taliban aren't trustworthy, and should be destroyed. Interested to see what happens next.

floppa21, I just catch up this on a chat board of USA
(United states of Afganistan), you're probably interested:

Well USA said they know ***** Bush's whereabouts... A few days ago, they "had no idea..." Maybe they're smartening up? USA isn't trustworthy, and should be destroyed. interested to see what happens next.

Understanding my point?

 

[floppa21]

Was there a point to be had? The Taliban isn't looking for Bush. We ARE looking for Bin Ladin. What?

 

[Sid]

I think that bravery starts when you're alone and faced with a computer screen. I think that New York has shown us all how to be brave against a faceless enemy and how to deal with tragedy and trauma. I think it's brave to apologise for allowing emotions to run riot.

On the off-topic topic, I believe that the right balance of humanitarian intervention and military strangulation might create 'nation-building' in Afghanistan via the exiled King and the Northern Alliance. The US & allies will not want to establish too many bases in Afghanistan, because that will give the disaffected 15% (Shi'ites and other Pashtuns) opportunities to do what they do best -- guerilla stuff. If it's true that bin Laden and Mullah Omar have been seen in Jalalabad, then expect them to be moving towards Peshawar and Kashmir. Expect more attacks on India as a result.

The wider issue is one that get's little airplay: what is humanity going to do when the inevitable 'clash of civilisations' gets too hot?

 

[GeneralHotRod]

Hello again.

It looks like Juize is recruiting an army of hippies

Anyway it looks like the U.S. is going on 2 bombing missions in Afghanistan: 1. The terrorist and Taliban targets. 2. The Afghan civilian population.*

*the proposed ammo will be food and leaflets. (were such barbarians!!!)

G-man. I now know how you must feel. I live near a large metro area (Denver, CO) and am beginning to fear further attacks. Our intellegence has been reporting that bin Laden has plans for further strike against the U.S. already in place. These have the capability of being biological and chemical.

To those who say the U.S. are at fault for these attacks piss off. All we did the past year is send nearly 100 million in aid to Afghanistan. Boy did we have that coming. We are in the process of forgiving some of Pakistans foreign debt to us. That may deserve a Nuke!!! And the gaul of dropping food and medicine to civilians. Our cargo planes deserve to get shot at for that.

Ya know I was thinking...these terrorists are willing to be martyrs and we are willing to kill them. The way I see it this could be a win-win situation for both sides

(1Marine + 1 M-16)x(1terrorist + 1 AK-47) = 1Marine + 1 M-16 + 1 AK-47

 

[floppa21]

General Hot Rod, you can see where I live, but I am not really TOO worried about attacks... I mean, West Coast would be hit before us, no? And Chicago? But the point is, if it's bio or chem, and it's anywhere close, we all gonna die anyways. All it takes is a nice breeze. I dunno, ya hear people sayin "Don't live in fear!!! That's what the terrorists want!!!" I don't know if that's what the terrorists want or not, but I ain't livin in fear. And I agree with you about the US helpin out others and not being at fault. Juize and Mikoyan will have plenty to disagree with there, but they won't have any good reasoning behind it.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I believe that the right balance of humanitarian intervention and military strangulation might create 'nation-building' in Afghanistan via the exiled King and the Northern Alliance. The US & allies will not want to establish too many bases in Afghanistan, because that will give the disaffected 15% (Shi'ites and other Pashtuns) opportunities to do what they do best -- guerilla stuff. If it's true that bin Laden and Mullah Omar have been seen in Jalalabad, then expect them to be moving towards Peshawar and Kashmir. Expect more attacks on India as a result.

knowing that the northern alliance is a very good friend of india ,pakistan wouldn realy like it when we would help te northern alliance to power.Furthermore ,the Northern alliance produces a lot of drug's and would produce more if they could.And that conflict in kashmir is realy nothing what we want now

 

[allan]

"Furthermore ,the Northern alliance produces a lot of drug's and would produce more if they could."

So what? Would we rather have opium growers or terrorist sponsors in power there? Actually, judging by some people's views here in the US, and the $43 million given to bin Laden earlier, maybe the answer to that question really isn't so clear to our leaders....

In a way, our fanatical but futile "War on [some] Drugs" financed the attack on NYC. How bitterly ironic....

"And that conflict in kashmir is realy nothing what we want now"

I agree. Is there an independence movement in Kashmir, independent of Indian and Pakistani interests? There should be....

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

So what? Would we rather have opium growers or terrorist sponsors in power there?

Why should we have to chose between those two options?

 

[allan]

"Why should we have to chose between those two options?"

I'm not sure what all the factions in Afghanistan are, and what their strengths, proportion of people represented, etc. are either. But from what I've recently read, the northern alliance seems the most likely faction that will rally behind the old King, who would probably be the leader most able to restore some stability there....

Whoever we help to take and lead Afghanistan should not only be a group that won't abide terrorists, but also be a group embraced by many Afghan people, if we want that leadership to be stable. If the northern alliance is the best pick, then so be it. But now is definitely NOT the time to be obsessing over people producing substances people WANT to consume peacefully, is it?

Not that I think there ever was such a time anyway....

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The Northern Alliance is hardly the best pick. It consists of only minorities, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Hazaras etc. You are going to need the Pashtuns to form a stable govt. The Pashtuns made up the majority of the population of Afghanistan.
The King (Pashtun by the way) could call a tribal council of the tribes of Afghanistan to rally around him. A bit primitive but hey, whatever works. I think I read somewhere that's what was being proposed. He had already met some reps in Rome.