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US electoral system one of the worst in the world

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ahovking, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    It is such a short distance to my polling station often we go as a family and take the dog with for the walk. The good thing for us that we know how to get to the polling station via the back entrance, so we don't have to bee annoyed by those how to vote cards at the front of every polling station.
     
  2. Arwon

    Arwon

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    We have voting machines in the ACT for territory elections, but they are mostly used for pre-poll currently. They're pretty much mostly useful for reducing preferencing mistakes within the Hare-Clark system. Also of note is that the source code is published.
     
  3. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    I can't seem to find how much of the US actually uses the electronic voting machines. I've never seen them when I voted.

    We have to go to a specific polling location.

    For a city of 50,000+ there seems to be many more now than when I voted there 18 years ago. (waited in line for an hour and a half to vote). I could have walked to the polling station then but it would have taken an hour or so. But with the polling station locations now, most people are within a 15 minute walk.

    http://www.cityoflacrosse.org/index.aspx?NID=105
    (map available)

    The last place I voted was in a city of 15,000+ (more suburban and spread out). There was only 2 locations (3 wards) so many were not within most people's walking distance. The whole process of finding which ward I lived in, registering to vote (since I hadn't voted in over 4 years), and actually voting took only about 10 minutes.

    http://www.cityofonalaska.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={705A0A76-A8DA-4DB0-9F65-FA065FB0EB9B}
    (again, map available)

    Voting in a small village or township (if living in the country) there is just one place to vote, usually at a town hall.

    Counting the votes can take just a couple hours in some places and in other places the counting goes well past midnight, and up to 5 or 6 AM I've heard. In those places I think the counting process needs to be sped up somehow, and if they just can't get enough volunteers/workers to do it then automating it makes sense.
     
  4. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    The Netherlands does not use electronic voting
     
  5. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    Ditto Canada. All my voting to date has involved paper ballots.
     
  6. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    ditto Germany (for the most parts). There have been some attempts at introducing voting machines - but those that were ever officially approved have all sorts of problems - including not fitting sufficient choices to actually hold elections given today's political landscape, so its all paper for pretty much everything bar a very few local elections...
     
  7. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Electronic voting is not in use in Finland.

    It was tried in 3 (out of ~350) local communities in 2008 local elections but it was so flawed that the current view is 'wait & see'. Later the court ruled that elections in those 3 communities have to be held again.

    Illustrated instructions for voting in Finland in English.

    http://www.vaalit.fi/17098.htm

    G
     
  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Sooooooooo
    Let's update the list :)

     
  9. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    yeah apparently there were some of these machines in use in the 2005 federal elections in Germany - a practice ruled unconstitutional by our constitutional court in 2009. They essentially required that any voting machine would have to provide a paper trail so that the voter could verify the actual vote cast and the voting public could verify the vote count afterwards. No such machines are currently approved.
     
  10. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    I stand corrected. They had them at one time but no longer use them.

    Not because proof of voter fraud happened but because of the potential for voter fraud*. Sounds like the argument used by opposite sides for the voter ID laws.....

    *The case of the candidate himself being a poll worker and manipulating the results is a poor reflection on the choosing of poll workers, not on the machine because he could have manipulated paper ballots as well.
     
  11. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    voter ID I don't think will find many opponents on the European side (with pretty much everyone having government issued ID anyways) - of course attempting to enforce voter ID and then not making it essentially trouble free to get such ID is another story altogether and probably one of the major reasons that it is an issue in the US is that some of the ID laws were (felt to be) written in a way as to ensure that certain groups of eligible voters would have more difficulty voting than others.
     
  12. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Not having an ID with you at any time can get you a fine up to €2500 here anyway, doesn't it? Which makes requiring it at the poll station seem reasonable.
     
  13. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    Actually in Germany it is up to €5000 for not owning a valid ID - you don't have to carry it though - but that still makes ID at the voting booth a minor hassle since every eligible voter has an ID and will be able to provide one at the voting booth.
     
  14. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I don't think this counts as the UK having an electronic voting system. I've not heard of any plans to use it elsewhere in England. Though, undoubtedly, Scotland will do so, just to show how great modern they are.
     
  15. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    Just waiting for our resident Nores and Irish now
     
  16. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Don't you have 24 hours to produce one if you don't have it on you?
     
  17. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    My "here" in that case is Ori's "here", not your "here".
    I think the Dutch fine is lower, right? Only ~€50 and you can only be asked for it if there is a reason for it (that is, if you broke some other law). Though I'm not really sure on this.
     
  18. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Me neither. Before drivers license became those handy little credit card sized cards I never carried an ID since I am prone to losing stuff. I always figured it would be cheaper to pay the fine if they stop me than lose the license and having to get a new one.

    I didn't even notice the €2500 figure, or I'd have figured you meant Ori's here :blush:
     
  19. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Can't let this one pass: none of those is a sovereign state.

    Germany famously prohibited any kind of electronic vote recently. So did the dutch, I believe. And they based their decision on the soundest and most relevant of arguments: elections must be verifiable by the average voter, not the province of experts. Electronic voting systems will always be a monopoly of experts: even of the code is open source the average voter cannot (nor can, arguably, any single person) verify every aspect of an electronic system. This undermines the confidence which is essential for a working electoral system

    This raises a political problem which people are happily ignoring but will one day blow on their faces: if a popular candidate with dedicated followers were to claim that he had been been robbed, who could prove otherwise? With almost everyone incapable of verifying the system, it would become a nasty issue of faith...

    Not so with paper ballots, where each candidate is free to have one observed accompany the whole process, and the process is all easily understood and followed.
     
  20. Ayatollah So

    Ayatollah So the spoof'll set you free

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    From the OP's cited article:
    What a truly shabby excuse. This is not a Droid phone we're talking about, something made for and sought by tech geeks. Work the damn bugs out before the thing goes into granny's voting booth. It's got to be user friendly to the max, or fuhgedaboudit.

    A Scot I know once stated that he's glad of the monarchy, because it sucks the worship away from an actually powerful position like the PM. I see his point.

    Having a verifiable count/recount method is indeed critical.
     

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