What does a MAGA hat stand for?

[hobbsyoyo]

At what point did I generalise about racism to the extent you felt you needed to reply?

I mean I'd play the victim card too if I drew one.

 

[Synobun]

I mean I'd play the victim card too if I drew one.

This is the worst Uno game I've ever played.

 

[rah]

Yes. you are the primary person generalizing so I really don't care what you think.

 

[luiz]

We'd need a trans person who wanted to go military to really have this discussion. Right now it's something we're discussing hypothetically.

BUT, since #MAGA appeared, would you predict whether violence has trended upwards or downwards? Not compared to to decades past, but in comparison to recent history?

Would we think that (if #MAGA was toxic), violence would increase?

I actually would assume violence against trans people is declining (if we account for greater reporting which probably happens nowadays). Not because of Trump or MAGA of course, but because attitudes towards trans people are improving, just like they improved towards gay people before, and ethnic minorities yet before. Trump might be toxic but he didn't change the course of attitudes, which are generally more positive towards trans people.

 

[Ajidica]

There is one trans person with a particularly toxic attitude and who is only capable of thinking in the most dumbed-down, binary terms imaginable, making any debate all but impossible.

Remember how angry you got back in the day whenever someone suggested you were overreacting to a PT government in Brazil; that anyone who didn't see the PT as the most corrupt society-wreckers since Chavez was a useful idiot?
I think Cloud has the right to be more than a little touchy on trans rights when large swathes of the GOP base and establishment are fairly hostile to transgender people.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Cis" is such a ridiculous qualification.

It's as if when speaking of people with four limbs, you would have to specify that at all times -- because there are some people without four limbs. Most people would agree that that's absurd, despite trans people and amputees being roughly the same proportion of the population.

"Cis" already exists in English as the inverse of "trans", so the use of the word "trans" necessarily implies a corresponding "cis", in very much the same way that "up" implies a "down", or "there" implies a "here". That's just how language works.

 

[El_Machinae]

I actually would assume violence against trans people is declining (if we account for greater reporting which probably happens nowadays). Not because of Trump or MAGA of course, but because attitudes towards trans people are improving, just like they improved towards gay people before, and ethnic minorities yet before. Trump might be toxic but he didn't change the course of attitudes, which are generally more positive towards trans people.

Yeah, that would be the trend line that we would predict. And then we can see if there's a change coincident with make America great again

 

[Berzerker]

We're talking past each other here; I'd love for there to be a viable, progressive 3rd party but to be frank our only options are the gop or democrats.

Okay.

So what do you want me to do? I'm forced to work within the system we have

What did you do, climb the moral high ground to vote for a warmonger?

Keep making excuses and defending a hat and slogan associated with the forced removal and deportation of Hispanics as well a myriad of other forms of bigotry.

Y'know the hat and slogans appropiated by bigots.

The people who wear it support the above and you defend them because you think they're somehow redeemable but they are not If they don't attempt to ameliorate the issues they have caused.

The fact they continue to wear it proves they don't have any genuine desire to change, so go and vote for your "individual gop candidates" but don't you dare ever claim to be an ally to minorities especially the LGBTQ community when your actions in the present day say otherwise

Didn't the people you've been voting for start wars and deport a bunch of Hispanics?

No

All this impressive revisionist history!

Look everyone, the Democrats have already washed their hands of Obama's two greatest achievements - Libya and Syria

 

[rah]

The fact they continue to wear it proves they don't have any genuine desire to change, so go and vote for your "individual gop candidates" but don't you dare ever claim to be an ally to minorities especially the LGBTQ community when your actions in the present day say otherwise

I can claim truth anytime I want. I've stood up for a gay friend at his wedding. His opinion I care about since he actually knows me. Your's I don't. I was cutting you slack because you're trans, but an ass is an ass regardless of sexual identity.

 

[Gorbles]

I can claim truth anytime I want. I've stood up for a gay friend at his wedding. His opinion I care about since he actually knows me. Your's I don't. I was cutting you slack because you're trans, but an ass is an ass regardless of sexual identity.

Caring about marginalised folk just because you happen to know them personally is one helluva catch for caring about marginalised folk.

 

[Estebonrober]

What did you do, climb the moral high ground to vote for a warmonger?



Didn't the people you've been voting for start wars and deport a bunch of Hispanics?





Look everyone, the Democrats have already washed their hands of Obama's two greatest achievements - Libya and Syria

lawls this post is tooo cute.

 

[Ajidica]

And then you voted for a candidate of a party that fought tooth and nail to prevent him from marrying in the first place and are still fighting against it. An act of love and tolerance, truly

FWIW Chicago is large enough that it can have its own political dynamics divorced from the country at large. In Chicago, the Democrats have maintained their Urban Political Machine system after it died out in most other places, leaving room for reformers to exist in the local Chicago Republican party.
You are really giving rah a hard time when he doesn't really seem to deserve it. He has already made is pretty clear he hasn't voted Republican nationally in a long time, and can't see himself doing that for quite a while.
I haven't seen anything from him that would suggest he is opposed to trans rights, it just isn't at the top of his political radar. Calling him evil or saying that he doesn't care about an issue can't be a good way to talk with someone and convince a sympathetic person to your beliefs.

 

[Gorbles]

FWIW Chicago is large enough that it can have its own political dynamics divorced from the country at large. In Chicago, the Democrats have maintained their Urban Political Machine system after it died out in most other places, leaving room for reformers to exist in the local Chicago Republican party.
You are really giving rah a hard time when he doesn't really seem to deserve it. He has already made is pretty clear he hasn't voted Republican nationally in a long time, and can't see himself doing that for quite a while.
I haven't seen anything from him that would suggest he is opposed to trans rights, it just isn't at the top of his political radar. Calling him evil or saying that he doesn't care about an issue can't be a good way to talk with someone and convince a sympathetic person to your beliefs.

Just highlighting the fact that rah, among others, have actually made personal attacks at Cloud in this thread, so really, insofar as this is still a discussion, there doesn't need to be a "doesn't really seem to deserve it" used here. If there is to be de-escalation, it needs to be less one-sided than this, in my opinion.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

**** it im done with this

If rah wants to defend the honor of those poor unfortunate souls wrapped up in maga that supposedly aren't bigots then he can at least own the consequences of that decision and how it's going to alienate minorities but it seems even pointing that out is going too far now

 

[Traitorfish]

Synsensa gave Rah a straightforward answer to his question in the first reply to the thread, and Rah's response was "nuh-uh!". This was never supposed to be a productive discussion, it was just, what's the word, "virtue signalling"?

 

[Patine]

What wasn't expected was the rapid and strong US response.

Although often viewed as such (especially by Americans), it wasn't just a U.S. response. Commonwealth force (UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa) were in there in more significant numbers than most Americans ever even acknowledge. And there were also other military contribution units to the UN (not exclusively U.S.) intervention force, though in even smaller numbers than the Commonwealth forces, but still there from France, Belgium, Turkey, the Philippines, Pakistan, Thailand, Ethiopia, Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Chile, and Cuba. Many Americans just see the U.S. and South Korea vs. North Korea and China, and that's IT, and that wasn't actually the case. But American military historians have a bad habit of giving more credit and respect to their enemies than to their allies in wars they've fought.

 

[Estebonrober]

Synsensa gave Rah a straightforward answer to his question in the first reply to the thread, and Rah's response was "nuh-uh!". This was never supposed to be a productive discussion, it was just, what's the word, "virtue signalling"?

Yea I gave a few sincere replies and they were all ignored. I stand by the you may not be a bigot because you are wearing the hat but you are committing a bigoted act intentionally. Not realizing that at this point is a good indication of the privilege thing all those darn libs go on about.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

My answer to the op was just a few words. I didn't see the point in pontificating, this isn't a discussion that will move anyone.

 

[rah]

Caring about marginalised folk just because you happen to know them personally is one helluva catch for caring about marginalised folk.

God, you just want to put bad words in my mouth. I never said that or implied it. Talk about attacks. You guys are pathetic.
I have not once in this thread supported anyone that wears a MAGA hat. I have said that they may those that do may not actually be racists.
Buy you guys refuse to differentiate the two. I have not once HONORED ANYBODY, yet you'd never know it listening to Cloud insult me.

 

[Patine]

God, you just want to put bad words in my mouth. I never said that or implied it. Talk about attacks. You guys are pathetic.
I have not once in this thread supported anyone that wears a MAGA hat. I have said that they may those that do may not actually be racists.
Buy you guys refuse to differentiate the two. I have not once HONORED ANYBODY, yet you'd never know it listening to Cloud insult me.

Ah, I see you too are suffering from the Slander and Smear Campaign gang just for not agreeing with their complete and total viewpoint and agenda, hook, line, and sinker, with no questions, concerns, or reservations allowed. I'm sure you watched as this vicious dogpack was doing the same to me, for the same reasons.