What Industries Should the US Nationalize?

[History_Buff]

No. If we drill domestically then a few things happen:

1. all the expenses of shipping the oil over here from the other side of the planet go away
2. an increase in the Global supply (by us increasing production) will cause the global price to go down
3. all these jerkoffs in turd world nations (see middle east) could no longer screw us by jacking prices whenever they want.
4. the USA should not be depending on any foreign nation for something we can produce at home anyway

I'm all for alternate energy, but none of the stuff being kicked around will be online faster than we could drill more anyway.

1. Not really. Oil sells at world prices, local markets with local pricing is almost non-existant.
2. A very small increase in Global Supply.
3. There's not enough oil in the U.S. to eliminate foreign reliance.
4. See above.

 

[Death_Machine]

1. Not really. Oil sells at world prices, local markets with local pricing is almost non-existant.
2. A very small increase in Global Supply.
3. There's not enough oil in the U.S. to eliminate foreign reliance.
4. See above.

2. wrong
3. wrong
4. still wrong

got any solutions there smart guy? I know they will be BS, but I could use a laugh.

 

[History_Buff]

2. wrong
3. wrong
4. still wrong

got any solutions there smart guy? I know they will be BS, but I could use a laugh.

2:
American OCS Reserves, currently unavailable for drilling: 18.7 billion barrels
From: http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html
World Proven Supplies: 1,331 billion barrels.
From: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2178rank.html

So those 18 billion barrels on the continental shelf represent about 1% of world reserves. A very small number. And that 18.7 is not proven reserves either, it is an estimate, and likely includes large amounts of oil that is not economically viable to recover, since it is very small pockets. Nor could it ever be brought out all at once.

Don't like that? Lets look at daily production. Same sources as before:
Projected Domestic Production in 2030 with OCS: 5.6 million barrels/day
Projected Domestic Production in 2030 without OCS: 5.4 million barrels/day
U.S. Domestic Oil Consumption in 2005: 20.8 million barrels/day
World Oil Consumption: ~80.3 million barrels/day

So not only will US Domestic Production decline significantly from 2005 levels (~8 million barrels), opening the OCS will yield only a 3% increase in 2030, assuming the OCS was opened in 2012.

Those extra 200,000 barrels would do almost nothing to counteract prices in the United States, let alone the world market.

-------------------------------------------------------

3.
Proven US Reserves: 21.76 billion barrels (2006 est.)
U.S. Consumption: 20.8 million barrels/day

So assuming the US could somehow produce 20.8 million barrels per day (and right now it doesn't come close), those reserves would last you about 1046 days. So 2.86 years. Hardly sustainable.

The simply fact is that the U.S. imports about twice as much oil as it currently produces. Domestic production could not cover that, even if it had 20 years to prepare.


4. Follows from 3.



Laugh it up smart guy.

 

[Merkinball]

Yes idiots. People with so little knowledge of economics or current affairs that they hold positions that are demonstrably factually untrue. I'm not running for election so I can call them idiots. It seems that the only thing Republicans are running on is trying to convince idiots that the other side thinks they are idiots. (In fact both sides know they are idiots).

What the idiots of the world don't realize is that this will have almost no effect on oil prices even in 20 years because it's not “OUR” oil , it's the oil of the company that produces it and they will sell it at market value to whoever they want to. - Mark

Idiots of the world unite!

 

[Merkinball]

Let me help you out a bit Mark:

When President Bush lifted the executive ban on drilling in the OCS, the price of a barrel of oil dropped by 20 dollars. It was not a coincidence, oil speculators saw that there would be more oil coming in the future, and today's prices dropped because of it. Prices would go down more if congress lifted their ban. - WICKLC1

 

[El_Machinae]

Yeah, I'm sure the Iran talks and slumping demand had nothing to do with the drop. Most people with serious money in oil know what drives the prices, and Bush's declaration is meaningless.

 

[Merkinball]

Yeah, I'm sure the Iran talks and slumping demand had nothing to do with the drop. Most people with serious money in oil know what drives the prices, and Bush's declaration is meaningless.

When inventories unexpectedly went down, nearly as much as they went up, the price rebounded upwards a single dollar this week. Wow. When Bush said he wanted to lift the offshore drilling ban they went down SEVEN DOLLARS.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if talks with Iran had a significant impact on oil prices. But hey, that's kind of the point of more domestic production. I'll let the idiots of the world unite on this one and figure out why more domestic oil will have more impact on domestic price than it will effect global price of oil.

 

[Theige]

So, we shouldn't drill in ANWR and the Shelf because it will only lower the price of a barrel of oil about 1%?

What about allowing American companies to make money?

Especially considering the long term plans to power cars without oil. Seems we should let our companies make money producing oil while they still can...

 

[Cutlass]

The long term solution that benefits the US people most and helps national security most is to replace oil for as much of our transportation needs as possible.

The short term solution that benefits OPEC, the oil companies, and terrorists most is to do business as usual and focus on supply.

 

[Narz]

Nationalize them all & privatize the military.

 

[Cutlass]

Nationalize them all & privatize the military.

you deserved that one.

 

[WICKLC1]

So, we shouldn't drill in ANWR and the Shelf because it will only lower the price of a barrel of oil about 1%?

What about allowing American companies to make money?

Especially considering the long term plans to power cars without oil. Seems we should let our companies make money producing oil while they still can...

Good point, American companies would make billions of dollars, and create thousands of jobs if we drilled in ANWR and the OCS. That's a good thing unless you are the type of person who thinks that the evil oil companies already make "too much money".

 

[Theige]

The long term solution that benefits the US people most and helps national security most is to replace oil for as much of our transportation needs as possible.

The short term solution that benefits OPEC, the oil companies, and terrorists most is to do business as usual and focus on supply.

I completely agree.

Conservation and clean energy are by far the #1 priority.

But why does that mean we cannot drill for oil while we are still able to make money doing so?

 

[History_Buff]

Because conservation and drilling do not have the same goals in mind?

Stop to think about why companies weren't allowed to drill there in the first place. Those reasons haven't changed. The economic advantages most likely do not outweigh the ecological disadvantages.

But why does that mean we cannot drill for oil while we are still able to make money doing so?

Because the U.S. government is not in the business of maximizing profits for other businesses

 

[CheScott]

I voted 'Why do you hate freedom' because you didn't include the defense industry.

Health Care maybe, but I am much more concerned with Eisenhower's Military-Industrial Complex.

 

[CheScott]

So, we shouldn't drill in ANWR and the Shelf because it will only lower the price of a barrel of oil about 1%?

What about allowing American companies to make money?

Especially considering the long term plans to power cars without oil. Seems we should let our companies make money producing oil while they still can...

As far as I've seen, the oil companies have not been hurting for profits. That being the case, I think the argument is that the ends simply do not justify the means.

But despite the fact that I'm a militant environmentalist, I am not very caught up with the whole ANWAR thing and I think it's really sort of a waste of time to be caught up in it.

I mean, honestly. It's going to get drilled sooner or later. Personally, I think 'later' is probably in the better strategic interests of the American people, but is being sold as not in our interests because sooner is more profitable. I say we hold out as long as we can and continue playing chess with China, saving that as an ace in the hole.

 

[El_Machinae]

Stop to think about why companies weren't allowed to drill there in the first place. Those reasons haven't changed. The economic advantages most likely do not outweigh the ecological disadvantages.

The economics have changed, though. The companies wanted to drill there when it was $20/barrel. That means that their ROI was satisfied at those levels, as well as being able to afford the infrastructure to drill. Okay, the USD has fallen quite a bit, so let's say those regions are profitable at $40 in modern dollars.

We can reasonable expect them to pay $60/barrel on environmental concerns and still pull a massive profit. At $60/barrel, they should be able to mostly nullify any environmental concerns (I'd expect). And the economic boost is an advantage, because they'd be pumping reasonably high levels of wealth into the economy. I wouldn't mind decent money being pumped into ecological sciences, since that will have long-term payoff.

I'm thinking Alberta should be able to force Fort. Mac. to be paying more on cleanup these days. Those sands were profitable at $40, iirc.


And, again, this is a Red Herring regarding Nationalisation and Oil Prices.

 

[Cutlass]

I think people fail to realize that eventually there will be offshore and ANWR drilling no matter who supports or opposes it.

There's just no reason to rush into it now. It doesn't really make sense to do it now.

 

[Merkinball]

So, we shouldn't drill in ANWR and the Shelf because it will only lower the price of a barrel of oil about 1%? - Chronic

You still can't figure it out? No, that's not the reason why. I'll give you another day to connect the dots... LA-LA-LALA!

The long term solution that benefits the US people most and helps national security most is to replace oil for as much of our transportation needs as possible. - Cutlass

Except this is a total pipe-dream. We don't have a workable solution for the economy at this point. How are we gonna fly jet planes? How are we going to power freight trains? What about people who have campers, and live around moutains? What about people who must drive long distances for their jobs? How are people supposed to go on vacations with vehicles that have a 100 mile range? The infrastructure to support the ultimate solution is ten years off. In the meantime, we need a stopgap the ensures the American economy runs as efficiently as possible. I don't understand what the big hold-up is about that.

I fail to understand why people such as yourself seem to think the ultimate solution is just going to magically materialize out of thin air...just because oil is high, and just because we're not drilling for oil. It's absurd logic.

The short term solution that benefits OPEC, the oil companies, and terrorists most is to do business as usual and focus on supply. - Cutlass

Yeah man. Way to put oil companies in there with OPEC and...the terrorists

Stop to think about why companies weren't allowed to drill there in the first place. Those reasons haven't changed. The economic advantages most likely do not outweigh the ecological disadvantages. - History Buff

Simply because it's government property? That's why they are not allowed to build there. The oil companies want barren sea flat tundra to drill on. The want a few thousand acres for the entire footprint across millions of acres. The land is totally flat, totally barren, basically completely devoid of wildlife. It's not used by the public in any way shape or form...except eco-tourist environmental wacko's that fly over it to produce propaganda. It's a complete and total wasteland.

It doesn't really make sense to do it now. - Cutlass

Do you own a car?

 

[El_Machinae]

I think people fail to realize that eventually there will be offshore and ANWR drilling no matter who supports or opposes it.

There's just no reason to rush into it now. It doesn't really make sense to do it now.

What indicators would need to change before 'it made sense'?
As the price of oil goes up (assuming a lack of viable alternates) people are going to care less and less about the environment. We already have CFC posters who don't care about the environment, as long as there's cheap gas.

All over the world, people are willing to ruin the ecology instead of reduce their quality of life. Now, it might even make sense for those at the edge of desperation, but we're likely to do it too.