What is a billion?

[Leoreth]

Yes!

(of course not) You just said that my view was an illogical gut feeling, and I took that as you implied that the long scale were the only reasonable logical choice. And accusing me of not understanding the other scale, when that is the one I usually use.

Sorry if I flew of the handle a bit too early.

I guess we both misunderstood each other

All I wanted to make clear is that there there's no objectively better way and everything comes down to subjective preference.

 

[Andvare]

I guess we both misunderstood each other

All I wanted to make clear is that there there's no objectively better way and everything comes down to subjective preference.

All this agreeing on a misunderstanding (oh, and BTW, I agree) is apparently boring poor Borachio.

So I have to say that I am right, and that MY method, because it is mine, and mine alone, is the logically superior. ANd anyone who thinks otherwise is an Aardvark.
You could call me an arrogant a-hole, and then, perhaps, poor Borachio is entertained once again.

 

[Borachio]

Poor me. I'm still bored.

(If I don't watch out, I'll get so bored I go and do some work. Perish the thought.)

 

[cardgame]

1000k = 1 million

1000m = 1 billion

1000b = 1 trillion

I don't see what's so illogical about that.

 

[Borachio]

Totally logical.


Boring, though.

 

[warpus]

I use both systems, depending on which one is more beneficial to me at the time.

(no but seriously, at various points in my life I had to be aware of both and understand the contexts in which you'd use each)

 

[metatron]

1000k = 1 million

1000m = 1 billion

1000b = 1 trillion

I don't see what's so illogical about that.

Ok...so first let's have the apparent logical sceme of both scales:

Short scale:
(10^3)^(1+1) million
(10^3)^(1+2) billion
(10^3)^(1+3) trillion
(10^3)^(1+4) quadrillion
(10^3)^(1+5) quintillion
(10^3)^(1+6) sextillion
(10^3)^(1+7) septillion
(10^3)^(1+8) octillion
(10^3)^(1+9) nonillion
(10^3)^(1+10) decillion
(10^3)^(1+11) undecillion

I hope the terms are correct. If not: Frack it!
Anyway: The same numbers in the short scale:

10^(6*1) million
10^(6*1+3) milliard
10^(6*2) billion
10^(6*2+3) billiard
10^(6*3) trillion
10^(6*3+3) trilliard
10^(6*4) quadrillion
10^(6*4+3) quadrilliard
10^(6*5) quintillion
10^(6*5+3) quintilliard
10^(6*6) sextillion

In comparison we can note two things:
1. The whole -ard thing with the adding three factors of 10 seems odd at first glance.
2. The long scale doesn't have to do any silly splitting up of factors as the short scale does. We will see why this is relevant in a second.

So let's do some calculations to testdrive these logics:

Test #1
Let's multiply 10^12 with 10^12. That's a billion in the long scale, a trillion in the short scale.

In the long scale this makes lot's of sense:
(10^6*2)*(10^6*2) = (10^6*4)
A billion times a billion is a quadrillion. Cause two plus two is four.

The short scale looks and feels somewhat differently...
(10^3)^(1+3)*(10^3)^(1+3) = (10^3)^(1+7)
A trillion times a trillion is a septillion. Cause three plus three is seven.

Test #2
You may have found that example unfair, since i did dodge those annoying -ards. So let's have another one. Let's square 10^21!

Long scale:
(10^(6*3+3))*(10^(6*3+3)) = (10^6*7)
A trillard times a trilliard is one septillion. You add up the two half-factors effectively adding one factor.
Every child knows that!

Short scale:
(10^3)^(1+6)*(10^3)^(1+6) = (10^3)^(1+13)
A sextillion times a sextillions is...oh my god...erm...a tredecillion... i guess.
You know, cause six plus six is thirteen and all that...​

The short scale: Logical, accessible, practical.
Or maybe not.

But, yeah, i guess if you give a number a sixish name on account of that number being "six plus one times a thousand", you might as well go all out and claim it makes sense.

 

[Lillefix]

I have never thought about that. So a milliard times a milliard is 1,5+1,5=3 trillion?
Trillion times miliard is 3+1,5=4,5 which is quadrilliard?
And quadrilliard times billion is 4,5+2=6,5 which is sextilliard?

By the writing of this I haven't calculated any of this, I just used the system Metatron showed in post above. If this is correct(and short scale doesn't have a similarly easy system), then I'm leaning towards long scale as the superior system.

 

[metatron]

So a milliard times a milliard is 1,5+1,5=3 trillion?
Trillion times miliard is 3+1,5=4,5 which is quadrilliard?
And quadrilliard times billion is 4,5+2=6,5 which is sextilliard?

Yes.

5

 

[TheLastOne36]

Whatever God said a billion was in the bible.

 

[Angst]

bi means pair or two or whatever

i've always thought of it as 1.000.000^2 because of that. and trillion 1.000.000^3. it's just logical

you can't do the same with the stupid short scale system

but it's actually not an issue to me, and it surprises me a bit. im usually really annoyed by these differences

edit: metatron is a smart guy

 

[cardgame]

Is there any use to numbers larger than a short trillion?

Seriously.

 

[metatron]

Is there any use to numbers larger than a short trillion?

Seriously.

Wait for the next Republican president.

If they manage to clone Reagan a trillion will be change in a jiffy.

edit: metatron is a smart guy

A smart guy wouldn't be too dense for parentheses.

 

[ParkCungHee]

So this is like the math versions of "What should we call the Byzantine empire."

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

10^9. Don't bother the scientists, they agreed about it.

 

[strijder20]

Is there any use to numbers larger than a short trillion?

Seriously.

Uh... Mathematics? Physics? Astronomy? Chemistry?

 

[Borachio]

Metratron...him smart geezer.

But I'm sticking to (10^n)(10^m)=10^(n+m). Call 'em what you fancy.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Nothing better than checking your account balance at an ATM in a third world country to discover you are a billionaire.......in ruppiah.

 

[CKS]

Is there any use to numbers larger than a short trillion?

Uh... Mathematics? Physics? Astronomy? Chemistry?

Well, sure, but we don't give them _names_. 3.74 x 10^28 is just 3.74 x 10^28. We don't want any words in there causing confusion.

 

[Angst]

So this is like the math versions of "What should we call the Byzantine empire."

What's wrong with calling it the Roman Empire?