Ordnael
I'll be the roundabout
Yeah...this is going nowhere
I concede whatever you want on this...not worth my effort!
I concede whatever you want on this...not worth my effort!
What is going on in the UK?
- Thread starter EnglishEdward
- Start date
Akka
Moody old mage.
That's just the same kind of answers I already got, simply from the other side. It's completely irrelevant to what I'm wondering (which is how the Labour has gone into cyberdystopian totalitarianism) and just a repeat the "he didn't do what I wanted so he ruined the country". With about just the same amount of worth and the same weird obsessive focus on pet peeves (ismphobes in the other cases, socialism/green in yours).
The world is a bit complex for such questions, but how are these:
- Kier thinks being tough on immigration is the best way to combat Reform and this can be framed as being tough on immigration
- Corbyn did not clear the authoritarians from Labour so the authoritarians cleared the left from Labour, with left a load of cyberdystopians
- The first past the post system makes anyone to the left of Labour electorally irrelevant
- Big tech have big wallets
- Because they killed John Smith
EnglishEdward
Deity
There already are different law enforcement regimes for different classes of people.
The class of people who live in Texas experience a different law
enforcement regime from the class of people who live in Belgium.
No, I reckon that most people think that if illegal immigrants with criminal records commit further crimes here, they ought
to be deported to their own country where they can enjoy whatever law enforcement regime that their own country has.
Yeah, different countries exist. As I think you know, I am also pretty against that idea as well ;-)
That is indeed what happens, but I think the logic, if not the practice, is that the sentence they serve here is the same as a resident and the revocation of the right to live here after the sentence and therefore deportation is an immigration rather than a justice matter.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Yes, I am aware that you are a one-worlder. It is a reputable ideology, but not one I share.
Is there any evidence of discrimination in sentencing between immigrants and natives?
that seems to me to be the general rule in nearly every other country
Alas thus separating the roles allows time served foreign criminals to slip between the gaps and remain in
the UK, I recollect that my former MP Charles Clarke lost his job as Home Secretary for exactly that reason.
The obvious difference is that in many cases they are deported before the end of their sentence, or in lieu of it. As to any actual different in trial i could not possibly comment, in part because the state makes it impossible to measure.
The other thing is that while one can make this argument, it does not stop such a sentence being a more harsh punishment for a migrant than it would be for others.
Ordnael
I'll be the roundabout
I don't think it's fair to make an argument from an utopian perspective twisting words from a fellow CFC poster commenting on reality.
I too would like an utopia like that, I'm a Star Trek fan, heck If I was ruling my country I would be talking to Spain to kickstart an Iberian Union and this way show French and German leaders that an European Federation is possible. But we, Europeans, do not share the same views, cultural background, religious background, values, morals as the massive influx of Asian and African migrants we are getting. Forced assimilation/integration is not fair, possible or desirable, specially if it's the native's people livelihood and peace on the line.
I do not think I am twisting Edwards words at all, and his response seems to indicate that he took this in exactly the sense it was intended.
EnglishEdward
Deity
The UK state still believes that it is smart and that if it properly reported on crimes committed by nationality,
racial, religious or other ethnic group, that will be used to justify racism etc by the stupid ordinary people.
But by non reporting, people often jump to (often the wrong) conclusions from other sources.
If the state accurately reported on crimes committed by groups, it would likely show that
the rumours that group X had a higher than average crime rate for this or that are false
and thereby reduce tensions OR that there is a problem with group X in which case they
could determine why there is a problem and look at taking measures to reduce it.
But the practice of obfuscation which the state has adopted means that:
(a) unhealthy rumours abound on social media
AND
(b) adverse trends with particularly groups are not investigated and so not resolved.
racial, religious or other ethnic group, that will be used to justify racism etc by the stupid ordinary people.
But by non reporting, people often jump to (often the wrong) conclusions from other sources.
If the state accurately reported on crimes committed by groups, it would likely show that
the rumours that group X had a higher than average crime rate for this or that are false
and thereby reduce tensions OR that there is a problem with group X in which case they
could determine why there is a problem and look at taking measures to reduce it.
But the practice of obfuscation which the state has adopted means that:
(a) unhealthy rumours abound on social media
AND
(b) adverse trends with particularly groups are not investigated and so not resolved.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
The idea of any former colonial country, no less one having been built off on the backs of said colonial history, complaining about "african and asian" immigration when they still own enclaves, in the case of spain and previously portugal and britain is hilarious
The thing I have with this is that no one explains why the groups that should be reported on are defined by
nationality, race, religion or ethnicity rather than wealth, faithfulness to their partner or if they like marmite.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
"It's a complete mystery why sudanese refugees are fleeing to britain" says incredulous brits unaware of centuries worth of british meddling in the area that has directly led to the conditions forcing people to flee that area
EnglishEdward
Deity
According to wiki, Sudan became independent on 1 January 1956, before I was born.
I could similarly argue that the problems in the UK are down to the Romans or Danes or
French who meddled in England much more and for much longer, also before I was born.
I could similarly argue that the problems in the UK are down to the Romans or Danes or
French who meddled in England much more and for much longer, also before I was born.
Ordnael
I'll be the roundabout
My bad...I was referring to my previous words but I wasn't clear on that.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
If you want to delude yourself sure you can compare an event thats still within living memory to something that happened prior to the formation of the uk, some might say that you're being deliberately disingenuous in order to distract from the uks well documented history of ****ing over vast swathes of the planet
don't know eddy, maybe the brits creating artifical states that don't recognise ethno-religious boundaries might have created issues in the world that still reverberate today leading to immigration, especially given there are people literally dying at this very minute from that:
i.e: Israel/Palestine, Sudan, Nigeria
All places coincidently undergoing forms of ethno-religious genocide, all previously occupied and then created by britain with no regard for their inhabitants and left to rot
Ordnael
I'll be the roundabout
What's hilarious about this?
Portugal has no enclave! Last enclave lasted until 1961, I wasn't born by then.
Should I pay in blood for my country's history...is that your angle?
EnglishEdward
Deity
Oh dearie me, resorting to swearing and all before lunch time.
In most cases there were not any clear cut ethno-religious boundaries
to create homogeneous states from, so states created as part of the
decolonialisation process were invariably going to be a mix up whatever.
In most cases there were not any clear cut ethno-religious boundaries
to create homogeneous states from, so states created as part of the
decolonialisation process were invariably going to be a mix up whatever.
Or, as they go the economics nobel for last year (pdf) for showing, for setting up states with poor rule of law and institutions optimised to exploit the population rather than inclusive political and economic systems for the long-term benefit of the population
Statistically, it would be interesting to see which crimes are committed more by 23% of the population (the non White British/Irish part), but then we'd also have in cold numbers which crimes are committed more by your average Brit down the pub, and that would never do for the likes of the Fail and the Express, so it would be safer for everyone involved to continue what we're doing and not publish demographic data for the accused.
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