What is going on in the UK?

[Cloud_Strife]

Oh dearie me, resorting to swearing and all before lunch time.

In most cases there were not any clear cut ethno-religious boundaries
to create homogeneous states from, so states created as part of the
decolonialisation process were invariably going to be a mix up whatever.

Whatever helps you sleep at night eddy, just try not to think too hard about how alot of geo-political issues are as the direct result of the UK and other colonial countries ****ing up the world, because then you might need to reckon with your countries own complicity, it's so much easier for you to just blame those awful migrants, right?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

What's hilarious about this?
Portugal has no enclave! Last enclave lasted until 1961, I wasn't born by then.
Should I pay in blood for my country's history...is that your angle?

So instead you'd prefer for the inhabitants of those countries to pay with their lives? Interesting, I wonder what that says about you, Ordnael.

Not once have you mentioned your own countries unfortunate history of massacring and oppressing people in their former colonial possessions all within living memory, no doubt countries that also contribute towards immigration to portugal.

 

[Ordnael]

Whatever helps you sleep at night eddy, just try not to think too hard about how alot of geo-political issues are as the direct result of the UK and other colonial countries ****ing up the world, because then you might need to reckon with your countries own complicity, it's so much easier for you to just blame those awful migrants, right?

I wonder if the slave trade by African tribes contributed to ****ing the world too?
Maybe I should be angry at Meloni for her ancestors conquering Lusitania?

 

[Ordnael]

So instead you'd prefer for the inhabitants of those countries to pay with their lives? Interesting, I wonder what that says about you, Ordnael.

Not once have you mentioned your own countries unfortunate history of massacring and oppressing people in their former colonial possessions all within living memory, no doubt countries that also contribute towards immigration to portugal.

Not going to dignify such absurdity with an answer!

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Not going to dignify such absurdity with an answer!

Of course, it's just so difficult for you to acknowledge your own history, much easier to hate on migrants

He thinks it absurd to point out historical facts that still contribute to issues in those countries, leading to people migrating, that last to this very day!

It's all just so silly.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Samson

I have read their abstract and it is confused, it looks like it was written by a committee.

If the institutions introduced by the colonial power did not suit them, then, after
independence, those countries had amply opportunity to change them.

It is tiresome having people try to blame us for what happened 50 years afterwards.

And if the UK is to take the blame when things go wrong afterwards surely it should take the credit when things go well.

For instance the UK intervened in China in the 19th century. Now China is prosperous today. Should the UK
claim the credit for that? Obviously not, it is down to what the Chinese people have achieved since then.

And similarly the current state of the two Sudans is down to what the Sudanese people have done since, not the UK.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

guys, what i'm going to do is forcibly take over land from the natives, destroy their culture and force them to adopt our language, ruthlessly exploit it for resources whilst committing incredible horrors that would form the basis of torture and mass killings of later fascist states, leave the bare essentials of a country after robbing everything including the copper piping, create an artifical state that recognises neither historical nor ethno-religious groups in the area, leave them to wage increasingly brutal civil wars whilst still robbing them in the form of debt payments and then complain for decades why people are immigrating from there to my country that has a better standard of life then they could ever hope to attain and then blame them for everything going wrong over here

Simple!

 

[EnglishEdward]

which country are you talking about?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

which country are you talking about?

Countries, not country, especially in britain's case eddy.

When American's complain about immigration from central and south america, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine or any area that's had the misfortune of our hand i laugh at them for their historical ignorance and unwillingness to accept what America has done, why should you be any different just because you want to compartmentalize the horrors your country has unleased on this world by claiming there's some sort of invisible, arbitrary distinction from colonial to present history?

The "first world" has utterly ****ed the planet both socially, economically, history, militarily and climate-wise and we have the sheer arrogance to complain about the resulting migration coming from the rest of the world? Just incredible, as if Eddy, if he had the luck of being born in a less affluent country than britain, wouldn't risk life or limb to protects himself, his family and kids by moving to a place less affected by any of the above

 

[Samson]

If the institutions introduced by the colonial power did not suit them, then, after
independence, those countries had amply opportunity to change them.

The idea is that these institutions were easily taken over by despots who continued to use them for their intended purpose, controlling the population and making the elite rich. Independence mostly changed who the elite was.

The nobel committee did this summary (pdf), where they show that features that determine if the immigrants are incentivized to build an extractive or productive economy are correlated with present day conditions.

 

[Akka]

The world is a bit complex for such questions, but how are these:
Kier thinks being tough on immigration is the best way to combat Reform and this can be framed as being tough on immigration

But that's just a smokescreen, Labour doesn't seem to actually DO anything significant on this point, and it very obviously only serves as a pretext for the digital ID debacle.
What I'm wondering is why the Labour is getting so obsessed of enforcing such authoritarian tool.

Corbyn did not clear the authoritarians from Labour so the authoritarians cleared the left from Labour, with left a load of cyberdystopians

And what were so many cyberdystopians doing in Labour to begin with ?
You'd think those folks would be more at home among the Tories.

 

[EnglishEdward]

The UK is not responsible for the despots who took over after the UK granted independence.

If the people don't like the despots, they depose them.

 

[Clubber Lang]

Lusitania

That's the destination of Asterix's new adventure, out next Thursday -

Asterix in Lusitania!
One beautiful spring morning, a stranger appears in the Gaulish village. He's from Lusitania, the sun-drenched land to the west of Hispania which is also under the Roman Empire's thumb. This former slave, who first featured in The Mansions of the Gods, has come to ask our indomitable Gauls for help because he knows about the Magic Potion and its powerful effects. And so begins another adventure for Asterix and Obelix!

 

[Arwon]

@ Arwon

By far the largest category in the charts you posted is fraud.

Well if you want to, use upside down arithmetic and, regard a 31% increase on the previous year as a decline that is up to you.

So fraud is the sole crime everyone is all worked up about is it?

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The UK is not responsible for the despots who took over after the UK granted independence.

If the people don't like the despots, they depose them.

you're excusing colonialism again

 

[Cloud_Strife]

So fraud is the sole crime everyone is all worked up about is it?

Literal "welfare queen" logic whilst rapacious private businesses continue to extract what remains from a britain ravaged by capitalism/privatization

 

[Arwon]

I suspect the spike in fraud is likely down to online stuff, ie old people being tricked by spams and scams

 

[EnglishEdward]

But that's just a smokescreen, Labour doesn't seem to actually DO anything significant on this point, and it very obviously only serves as a pretext for the digital ID debacle.
What I'm wondering is why the Labour is getting so obsessed of enforcing such authoritarian tool.

There are to my mind, six reasons:

(1) Dead Cat Theory

We are clearly unpopular so we will throw this digital identity idea into the public debate to distract from that.
Then when people complain we can withdraw it, and people will realise we are indeed responsive.
(I thought the Rwanda scheme was originally a dead cat that the government talked itself into believing in.)

(2) EU Mimic

We are Remainers, and wish to prove our loyalty to the EU cause by following all their regulations.
The EU plans to introduce digital ID so we will do it to match and ingratiate ourselves by doing it quicker.

(3) Immigration Alibi

(a) Our financial capitalist controllers like large net immigration as it gives them so many opportunities to make money.
Our voters don't. So we will put forward a scheme that we can sell to voters, that won't work and upset the financiers.

(b) Better still if parliament votes against it, we can blame them for preventing us controlling immigration.
And if Parliament votes for it,we can say digital ID will solve this and do nothing else for the next three years.

(4) The tech companies who fund us are keen on it and we want to please then because we are want them to
invest in data centers and AI (because the consultants they supply free to us have brainwashed us).

(5) The economy is going to crash and crash badly, and we need tools to control an impoverished society.

 

[EnglishEdward]

you're excusing colonialism again

No, you are excusing the independent countries by blaming their problems on colonialism that ended long ago.

 

[Samson]

The UK is not responsible for the despots who took over after the UK granted independence.

If the people don't like the despots, they depose them.

If it was conclusively demonstrated that the political system set up by the colonial power was the principal determining factor in the quality of life of individuals today would you consider that colonial power to have any responsibility for that situation?

No, you are excusing the independent countries by blaming their problems on colonialism that ended long ago.

It is not the countries but the dutch nobel laureates.