What to think of Iran?

eyrei

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The propoganda machines are in full swing again, which has me rather worried that the Bush administration will take some violent, punitive action against Iran before it loses the power to do so, which could well come in a few months. I honestly can't decide if this would be an effective strategy.

On one hand, if there is even an ounce of truth behind the Iranian rhetoric, they cannot, under their current government, have nuclear weapons.

On the other hand, the glaring example of Iraq is hard to miss, and we cannot afford another large scale military action at present. If we withdrew a significant number of soldiers from Iraq it would cause chaos, so we would have to field enough new infantry and armor to send to Iran.

Airstrikes against their nuclear facilities would be foolish, since, without using nuclear weapons (can you say hypocrisy?) to destroy these sites, we would likely not get all of even the ones we know about. Our lack of intelligence would further increase the risk that we simply give them the incentive to nuke someone without removing their ability to do so.

So, we are left with diplomacy. Unfortunately, since the US is unwilling to trust the Iranians and vice versa, the possibilities for an agreement are very limited, and usually amount to one side backing down. The Russians offered a compromise, but we don't trust them either, and they don't trust us. It is ironic that the Russian offer to manage Iranian reactors is similar to the deal the US just signed with India. China might be 'bribed' into supporting punitive actions against Iran, especially since they trade quite a bit, but I don't know that we are willing to pay the price. So the security council resolution cannot have much substance because the Russians and Chinese will not support it. US credibility in much of the world has been severely damaged in recent years, the Iranians know it, and it makes a diplomatic solution led by the US even more unlikely.

My solution is for the US to ask for neutral arbitration from a third party as if this was a dispute between two nations. It would go a long way towards fostering the idea that the US is not out to conquer the world, as well as removing the US as an easy opponent to distrust in negotiations.

Brazil has a good record on non-proliferation and wants to gain a permanent seat on the security council. I think they also trade a great deal with countries the US does not get along with.

Anyway, just some thoughts I figured I would write down...
 
The issue is between the UN and Iran. The US should be limited to its vote for/against any UN resolution nothing more. Military strikes do not work as seen by Afgan and Iraq. Remember Iran has only enriched uranium to about 5% I think. 20% is needed for a nuke but 90% is best. For the first time in this whole thing last night I saw the media interview a nuclear physist. How long does it take to get their view? They know all about this stuff. It is predicted that it will take upwards of 10 years to get 1 nuke if Iran commits 100% to it. There is no need for military action and while it is concerning that Iran has nuclear technology and is not a non-poliferation member it must be let up to the UN to deal with. If they think we need to invade then by all means invade. The US cannot and should not take it apon itself to police the world and negate the real international law like it did in Iraq.
 
HawkeyeGS said:
It is predicted that it will take upwards of 10 years to get 1 nuke if Iran commits 100% to it. There is no need for military action


That is the biggest slice of BS I have ever heard. There is no way it is going to take as much as ten years to get a nuke unless the Iranians drag their feet from here to the Moon and back.
 
^ Indeed. Was there any reasoning behind picking 10 years as a time period? If Iran really wants nuclear weapons, they'll do it in under 10.
 
John HSOG said:
That is the biggest slice of BS I have ever heard. There is no way it is going to take as much as ten years to get a nuke unless the Iranians drag their feet from here to the Moon and back.
Are you a physicist? How about a nuclear chemist? If not, you cannot claim it to be BS.
 
There is no good solution to this problem, which really sucks.

Ground troops is ruled out. Air strikes won't do the job, nor will they result in regime change. Diplomacy won't make them stop. Sanctions will just hurt the people. If we decide to let them have nuclear weapons, Israel will do what we wouldn't.

The choices are all so bad, it hurts to even try to choose the best.
 
I saw it on the news. A scientist was interviewed and that is what he said. The level that Iran has enriched uranium would is only enough for nuclear power plants. To get a nuclear weapon they need 20% but for a good one they need 90%. You cannot just shoot my post down without justification. The 10 years was also stated by the scientist who said that the technology the Iranians posess is quite poor with respect to the West and it would be impossible for them to create weapon grade uranium so they will need to expand their scientific and industrial efforts (taking ~10 years) before a nuke could be made. Don't just say my post is BS simply because you personally had never heard it before. Look up some stuff on the net and you should be able to find info on levels of uranium enrichment.
 
I was initially supportive of air strikes against Iran but what has been said is true; it simply wouldn't work. In fact, any military action against Iran will not work unless a lot of countries commit a lot of resources and troops, which will not happen.

It's unfortunate that we must wait until disaster strikes before we can intervene. I imagine Israel will do something that will drag N.A.T.O into a war with Iran.

I can't help but think though, if the U.S. hadn't invaded Iraq, they could've taken care of an actual threat.
 
Alpine Trooper said:
I can't help but think though, if the U.S. hadn't invaded Iraq, they could've taken care of an actual threat.
Absolutely. Still, it's easy to imagine Saddam pulling the same crap Iran is now, had we invaded Iran. And us being in the same conundrum.
 
Alpine Trooper said:
I can't help but think though, if the U.S. hadn't invaded Iraq, they could've taken care of an actual threat.

This argument keeps coming up, and I just don't see it. How would we deal with Iran differently if we didn't have 140,000 troops in Iraq right now?
 
Irish Caesar said:
How are you defining "suitcase nuclear device"?

A crude nuclear device in a suitcase :)

Alpine Trooper said:
I imagine Israel will do something that will drag N.A.T.O into a war with Iran.

I doubt it - Israel isn't a part of NATO, therefore other NATO members would not have an obligation to attack Iran if it attacks Israel.

I can see the U.S. and the U.K. helping out though.
 
Irish Caesar said:
This argument keeps coming up, and I just don't see it. How would we deal with Iran differently if we didn't have 140,000 troops in Iraq right now?

You have a LOT of resources tied up in Iraq. It's called being overstretched.
 
Isn't the US military centered around the idea of being able to fight two full-fledged wars simultaneously?

I think we are lacking less in capability than willpower.
 
I don't think it is that easy to imagine Saddam with nuclear weapons. Iraq (even when it wasn't blown to pieces) was no where near the level of Iran. It is easy to imagine Bush telling everyone that Saddam has nukes though.
 
I was thinking less nuclear weapons than just general antagonism - funding terrorism in occuped Iran, say. And let's not forget that Saddam wasn't a fully-resolved situation in 2003, as much as we'd like to think. Our sanctions killed, what, 100,000 people in a decade?

This is entirely parenthetical, but I've read studies that containment would have cost the United States just as much as war did financially, and perhaps even in human lives if you count the deaths due to sanctions and Saddam's brutality.
 
cgannon64 said:
Isn't the US military centered around the idea of being able to fight two full-fledged wars simultaneously?

I think we are lacking less in capability than willpower.

Rightly so. It is one thing to be capable of going to war but it should be another for the population of a country to will it. If we had worried more about the will of the people more than our capabillity we may have avoided the war in Iraq and perhaps the current Iranian situation.

Also just stop and think for a second why does Iran proclaim its nuclear achievements to the world. Because they are trying to antagonise us. Just like the terrorists. They want a reaction. Our governments are all too ready to give them.
 
cgannon64 said:
Isn't the US military centered around the idea of being able to fight two full-fledged wars simultaneously?

I think we are lacking less in capability than willpower.

So you propose that the U.S. forces abandon Iraq much like they abandoned Afghanistan?

The U.S. could probably fight a war on 5 fronts and win.. that's not the question. The questions is whether you're willing to invade a country, destroy its infrastructure, create a big mess, and just take off.

Where would you find the troops to invade Iran with?
 
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