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Why Marines?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheetah, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    AFAIK, apart from SEC reasons, they can't, but film-makers normally ask if it's OK to make a film about a specific unit.
     
  2. Aegis

    Aegis Deity

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    This is not true. You can choose your job in the Marines just like you can in any of the other branches of service.
     
  3. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    In 1994, you didn't get to pick as an enlisted man. When did that change? I remember someone correcting me on this before, but I don't remember when it changed or the cirumtances when one gets to pick.


    Thanks for the info.


    As far as I can figure, it is like this: One can make a semi-fictional movie about supermarkets, but not about Publix or Wholefoods Markets. Similarly, if you want to make a semi-fictional movie about the military, you can do so... but if you want a brand or company name (in this case, branch or unit) to be used (Army, Marines, 82nd, etc) then you need permission just like you would for making any other fictional film involving a real entity. Otherwise, people could say "this is a semi-fictional film about the 82nd" and have them slaughtering civilians for fun and then eating them. You can have generic military people do that, but if you want to put a real person's name or a real entity on it, you gotta get permission.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartbreak_Ridge


    Were the (ex, I hear) Marines in Avatar specifically US Marines (a real entity), or just Earth Marines (a generic entity)?
     
  4. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    Well, the main dude wears an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor t-shirt, so I'm guessing US Marines.

    I know of a Marine PR officer in LA that worked a little with the film, so that would make sense.

    On a somewhat related note, Hollywood came down to my office to shoot some scenes for a new movie. It was pretty cool, I had about 10 of my Marines acting as extras. It was funny, though, the dumpster behind our PX was really full, so they parked a humvee in front of it so it wouldn't get on film, lol. And they raked all the leaves on the grass into neat little piles.

    Anyway, anytime they're making a movie about a service, there is some kind of coordination. We have PR guys to handle it.
     
  5. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Are you saying that if the UK had the same rules the express permission of the Black and Tans would have been legally required to make The Wind That Shakes the Barley and the permission of the Parachute Reg to make Bloody Sunday?
     
  6. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    Pretty sure that approval is not required to make a film using their names, but if you portray the military that badly you will face other problems.

    It is needed to get aid in the form of access to equipment and personnel (for cheap or no cost), though.
     
  7. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Well Eco does seem to say that if you were to use regimental names - even branch names - them in the US explicit permission would be a legal requirement.

    If thats right that is the most grotesque infringement on free speech. The legal implications would shame a police state.
     
  8. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    I would like to see a source for that. IIRC "Crimson Tide" never received any backing from the Pentagon (which is pretty reasonable for them) and was expressly a US Navy vessel (to teh extent that parts were filmed by having a helicopter just fly over when a Navy sub was put to sea with no military involvement).
    I also seem to recall Stargate claiming to be the only TV show with Air Force approval, yet there are plenty that reference it and units.

    It also doesn't make any sense for historically based films. I can go ahead and make a film about a company and use their name, so long as I am telling the truth about it (and therefore be open for a libel suit).

    It may be needed for entirely fictional stories, though I doubt it.
     
  9. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    They probably would have faced a problem if they wanted maroon berets and DPM, since it's technically illegal to impersonate a member of HM armed forces. How permission generally works is that (for example) when filming Bravo Two Zero the producers needed accurate equipment and tactics, so they asked around the ministry and got military people (I don't think they actually got the SAS) and kit to play with.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I was under the impression that it was some sort of Megacorp/quasi-colonial-government entity, of the East India Trading Company variety. That said, in American cinema "Pan-global Government = USA, etc.", so it may as well be. (You'd think a Canadian would be a bit better about that, but apparently not...)

    Would those sort of rules even apply to obsolete organisations? Nobody ever asks for permission to use Red Army or Waffen SS insignia, after all (...do they?)
     
  11. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    I´m pretty sure that the names of all goverment entities are public domain.

    FBI, CIA, United States Marine Corps, Army of the Patomac, 101st Airborn Division are not registered trademarks as far as I know.

    Film makers rely on the military to provide them with equipment. The military reviews the script and if they think it portrays the government or military in a negative light then they will not provide aide to that movie production but the film makers do not need permission to do anything.
     
  12. bhsup

    bhsup Deity

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    Well... Chicago (the band) had to change their name from Chicago Transit Authority over legal use of the name issue.
     
  13. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    Link to video.

    Hmmm. Nice use of Phil Collins at the end.

    I can't wait to see this movie they filmed at my camp and see how they make it look. edtit: Its called Battlefield LA, I think, lol, some sci fi movie about aliens pwntin LA. Harvey Dent is the lead, Michelle Rodriquez is in it as well.
     
  14. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    Just because a professional advises doesn't mean the filmmakers take advantage of it, either for practical, artistic or any other reasons.
     
  15. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    I know, thats why I'm looking foward to seeing this movie. I just remembered that clip specifically because our instructors showed it to us at TBS as a joke.
     
  16. say1988

    say1988 Deity

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    I'm going to try and catch that, now
     
  17. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    1. I'm not sure how it works.

    But I think one cannot just put private company names in movies without permission. Right? One cannot just put "The Gap" in a movie without permission. Why should it be different for government entities? They have the right not to be slandered too. Why should private companies have the right to reject such portrayals, but not the military?

    People could still make the film, but to put someone's name in it they need permission from that entity. Seems fair to me. Make your film and say it is your impression of what happened somewhere with some unit, just don't use the names. You only get to use the names (remember, service members have privacy rights too - just like other citizens) if you get permission.

    Am I allowed to make a film called "McDonalds" and create a semi-fictional film about them? No.

    Remember, we are talking about fiction here. You can make all the documentaries you want about whatever... but if you are making a fictional (semi) film about something... you can't just pick any target you want and invent stuff with their name on it... that's libel.

    Freedom of speech does not, and should not, include the right to libel anyone you want with fiction.
     
  18. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Just to get your specific position clear.

    You are saying that no film of the events of bloody sunday should be allowed to be created or circulated without the express legal permission of the c/o of the paras? Allowing, of course, that the paras are represented as being paras?

    You argue that the state should have veto rights over history itself?
     
  19. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I'm saying that the person or entity portrayed, government or private, should have veto rights over FICTIOUS portrayals of themselves.

    You cannot just invent crap and put anyone's name on it that you want.

    We're not talking about history. We are talking about fictious movies.


    Do you think I should be allowed to make a movie called GinandTonic and just invent a bunch of BS about you and tough crap on you??

    Freedom of speech does not protect libel. I don't know where you got the idea it should, but it doesn't and it shouldn't.
     
  20. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Really? Did you see The Patriot or Master and Commander?

    So clearly after two hundred years writing a slanderous fiction is ok despite the institutions being slandered being contiguous entities. Given you clearly believe that 40 years is too short a time that does raise the issue of where between 200 - 40 years you believe the cut off is and why?
     

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