Would you go back in time to prevent your own birth for $1b?

[strijder20]

His question is about preventing birth. Not transferring money.

... Which is exactly what I'm answering?

If preventing your birth does not erase you from existance, there is no problem.

If preventing birth does erase your existance, then:
- It might trigger a paradox, because you might not be able to prevent your own birth if you didn't exist in the first place
- It might not trigger a paradox, and you just completely disappear.

So in all the universes you can end up in you exist.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

This experiment means depriving my grandfather of the joy of kids, and my parent and his/her siblings their existence. Money is meaningless.

(So, no.)

PffI actually didn't even think about killing my parents. I hardly knew my grandparents, or rather, I only knew one grandparent a bit. But killing my parents is horrible enough. So I guess no after all....

 

[warpus]

Hang on. Why not go back to prevent your own birth?

If you're successful then you wouldn't be born. And therefore couldn't go back.

Don't the people with the $1bn realize this?

Play out the scenario in your head. You go back, you do the deed. What happens from that point onward from your point of view? You cease to exist? You and the universe you are in cease to exist? That seems rather odd for a thing to happen, it seems it'd be far more likely that you'd continue to exist and reality would in some way and some how fix itself to get rid of the logical paradox. That's just a guess, but that's where I'm coming from when I say "I'm pretty sure I'd continue to exist if I did this"

I'd do it, but I'd hope that we're working on a semi-permeable or predestined timeline, so that either my great-grandfather wasn't really my progenitor (adoption, adulterous wife etc) or that something in the late 19th Century conspires to ensure that my relatives are born on schedule.

That's the thing, what *would* happen with this paradox? The implication could be that time travel is just impossible, but there are particles that travel backwards in time.. Reality has to be set up somehow to prevent logical paradoxes to occur. How exactly is it "set up"? How you answer that question should play a big role in how you answer the question I'm asking in this thread.

 

[warpus]

There are simpler experiments that could be done first. For instance, a machine could be sent back in time to destroy it's factory. The results of that experiment could give a lot of confidence to the results of this one.

There are several problems with this plan: 1. How would you know that the machine was successful? You would somehow have to set it up to not only destroy the factory, but also send a message or an object forwards in time with proof that the factory has been destroyed. Whatever experiment you set up can only lead to a conclusion of "inconclusive" if nothing happens. 2. You can't specify an exact geographical location, so you'd need a rather large bomb.. That would affect the past in other, unpredictable ways. The experiment has to be designed to minimize all other variables - much like you'd minimize the influence of variables during statistical analysis to learn more about 1 particular variable. It has to be simple and quiet. A human going back is the only option.

You can assume that whichever scenarios you can come up with that you think would work instead have been considered and rejected by a virtual and uberintelligent Steve Jobs 2.0

 

[dutchfire]

PffI actually didn't even think about killing my parents. I hardly knew my grandparents, or rather, I only knew one grandparent a bit. But killing my parents is horrible enough. So I guess no after all....

Technically, you don't kill them, you just prevent their birth.

 

[Souron]

There are several problems with this plan: 1. How would you know that the machine was successful? You would somehow have to set it up to not only destroy the factory, but also send a message or an object forwards in time with proof that the factory has been destroyed. Whatever experiment you set up can only lead to a conclusion of "inconclusive" if nothing happens. 2. You can't specify an exact geographical location, so you'd need a rather large bomb.. That would affect the past in other, unpredictable ways. The experiment has to be designed to minimize all other variables - much like you'd minimize the influence of variables during statistical analysis to learn more about 1 particular variable. It has to be simple and quiet. A human going back is the only option.

You can assume that whichever scenarios you can come up with that you think would work instead have been considered and rejected by a virtual and uberintelligent Steve Jobs 2.0

For one:
1)The machine would return with photo and other evidence of it's success. This would be more conclusive than sending a person, because a person could lie about having neutered his grandfather. And of course you'd need to make the machine store the history of construction on itself.

2)If you can specify a specific person it's not harder to specify a location. A machine could be made that could track down a factory as effectively as a person could track down his grandfather. Also, it doesn't need to be a bomb. If a part of the machine is timestamped, then anything that delays the moment a stamp happens would be evidence toward the result of such an experiment as you describe. One can more carefully tailor all the variables for a machine than one could for a person.

Eventually you may want to send a human to change his own past, but you can be pretty confident what would happen by the time you try it. No need to risk people when machines could do the job, and better! If this Steve Jobs 2.0 rejected such ideas perhaps his ethics protocols are deficient.

 

[Save_Ferris]

$1 billion adjusted for inflation? I don't see why not, a billion dollars could save a ton of people's lives. Heck, I'm curious about time, I'd test it for free.

 

[Crezth]

I'd cheat and go back to the beginning of the universe and tell God that the universe - making it - is not such a good idea.

How's that for a paradox?

 

[strijder20]

I'd cheat and go back to the beginning of the universe and tell God that the universe - making it - is not such a good idea.

How's that for a paradox?

Good luck telling something in a place without air.

 

[Crezth]

Good luck telling something in a place without air.

God breathes air.

 

[uppi]

I wouldn't do it, because there are simpler methods to answer the question without risking familicide of anyone:

For example, I could go back one hour in time to the same location to prevent myself from going into the time machine. I just wait in front of the time machine and only go into it, if no second me appears besides me. This experiment would produce a similar paradox with much less risk involved. Additionally this scheme allows the whole experiment to be observed in a controlled environment, so it is actually better suited to answer the question.

And if the mad scientists at Apple insist on using their crazy scheme for some reason, I'd refuse to participate in their poorly designed experiment.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Hang on. Why not go back to prevent your own birth?

If you're successful then you wouldn't be born. And therefore couldn't go back.

Don't the people with the $1bn realize this?

Of course. Just because they offer the money, that doesn't mean they actually intend to pay it out.

But that's what the money is for! If they don't want to do it themselves (for whatever reason), then they offer compensation to someone willing to do it in their stead.

If they're not willing to risk themselves for their own theories, they're cowards and lacking in ethics.

Play out the scenario in your head. You go back, you do the deed. What happens from that point onward from your point of view? You cease to exist? You and the universe you are in cease to exist? That seems rather odd for a thing to happen, it seems it'd be far more likely that you'd continue to exist and reality would in some way and some how fix itself to get rid of the logical paradox. That's just a guess, but that's where I'm coming from when I say "I'm pretty sure I'd continue to exist if I did this"

Have you ever read Robert Silverberg's novel Up the Line? The main character is told that while he is in the past, he has free will to do whatever he wants (subject, of course, to Time Patrol monitoring; if he commits timecrime, they might just show up out of the blue and arrest him even before he does it - from his pov). He can talk to the locals, eat a meal, observe historical events, etc. If he were to commit timecrime by eliminating one of his own ancestors, he wouldn't immediately blink out of existence while he was in the past. The theory put forth in the novel states that 21st century time travelers (the story takes place from the pov of the years 2058-2060) are protected by the Benchley Effect so that they continue to exist until they reappear in the 21st century. At that point, they will vanish because the moment they eliminated their ancestor, they will have ceased ever to have existed in the first place.

God breathes air.

Pretty neat trick for somebody who is imaginary at best and non-corporeal at worst.

 

[del62]

I think I will leave the concept of travelling backwards in time for science fiction.

 

[Ondskan]

I don't believe in the Time-Space continuum, alternative universes (each with its own timeline) and that time is a fourth dimension.
I think it's among the most foolish things ever purported in science and critics like Tesla and others (can't remember them now but seriously prominent ones) were silenced early on by the Einstein supporters which perhaps one of the greatest mistakes in human history considering how religiously these superstitions are now followed in the science community.


Regardless, if it was true then I would attempt to sue, imprison or in a worst case scenario murder who ever is behind Apple for messing up time and space. In the process I'd try to stop the whole thing and just try to get payed that way. Especially considering the sick layup of this whole scenario. Who are you to come up with such nonsense?
Why not do something like imprint a piece of artwork in some cave or create a time capsule or something more sensible?

If on the other hand we had some serious proof that going back in time would only change that timeline and not our own then I might consider it if grandpa is okay with it. Who the hell neuters his grandfather if he isn't? Sick.

 

[Murky]

One problem I see with the OP, not sue if others have pointed it out yet, but if you could go back in time why would you need to off yourself for the $1 billion? Couldn't you just take the knowledge that you have and make yourself wealthy?

 

[Arakhor]

Technically, you don't kill them, you just prevent their birth.

If only real life were that simple.

 

[Souron]

One problem I see with the OP, not sue if others have pointed it out yet, but if you could go back in time why would you need to off yourself for the $1 billion? Couldn't you just take the knowledge that you have and make yourself wealthy?

Yes, but it's less work to neuter your grandfather.

 

[dutchfire]

If only real life were that simple.

Well, it is similar to saying that you kill your own kid every time you use anti-conception measures.
Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if there are some hard core Christians who are saying exactly that.

 

[uppi]

I don't believe in the Time-Space continuum, alternative universes (each with its own timeline) and that time is a fourth dimension.
I think it's among the most foolish things ever purported in science and critics like Tesla and others (can't remember them now but seriously prominent ones) were silenced early on by the Einstein supporters which perhaps one of the greatest mistakes in human history considering how religiously these superstitions are now followed in the science community.

Please stop using GPS then. Apparently it is a system that is fueled by superstitions. Who knows what could happen if we continue to rely on such magic.

 

[Ondskan]

What does the GPS have to do with anything?