Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
We've had that crisis thing and people are still worshipping the free market?
Yee gods.
Yee gods.
You've Been Duped The Affordable Care Act isn't raising your premiums. Republicans are
- Thread starter FriendlyFire
- Start date
That's what's been happening the whole time. Turns out, people can afford a lot. It's not an efficient market, because 'free market economics' doesn't work with medical care. Too many things need to happen for the free market to offer efficient solutions, and health care doesn't meet them.
People point out that 'the mandate' allowed companies to jack up their prices to whatever they wanted. But that's not true, if competition actually worked. The mandate just means that they'd compete with each other over a different price floor.
You have to be careful to figure out what people mean. In economics, a 'free market' means something very different from what it seems to mean on the street. That's fine, as long as people realize. 'Free markets' only create efficiencies when we're talking the version used in economics. Not the colloquial usage
warpus
In pork I trust
Coverage is the most expensive in the U.S., if you keep all the taxes and all other variables in mind. Out of western countries anyway.
I mean you can debate it all you want, but you'd have to tell me why you think American healthcare is so much more expensive than everywhere else.
The experts will tell you it's because you guys don't have universal healthcare and don't have all this stuff locked down with solid regulations, benefitting the consumer, like everywhere else.
There are three components.
American Health Insurance is expensive because it suffers from a market failure (so free market doesn't provide efficient solutions) and the bandaid regulations aren't sufficient. It's also expensive because of wonky incentives. Both benefits AND insurances gets treated as a tax-deduction for employers. So, the more successful your company is, the cheaper it becomes to buy insurance for your employees. And that means that 'the rich' are bidding up prices with an unfair price advantage. American Health care is expensive because America Is Rich, and people will pay for health care. So, the people providing the goods and services are able to get paid good money.
And the final damage, in the longrun, is because people don't understand how Supply Side Economics (I personally blame Trickle Down Theory for confusing everyone). The way the entire market (mostly) is encourage is on the Demand Side. Your Boomer mother has a 1/6 chance of having Alzheimer's when she's 85. And so, Medicare D taxes everyone to incentivize Big Pharma to provide 'the best' Alzheimer meds for her in 20 years. It doesn't incentivise to have the best generic drug (i.e., off-patent and cheap). That's Demand Side.
Supply Side is when you actually pay to produce stuff, and there are many instances where it leads to the efficient outcome in the longrun. People aren't willing to pay for R&D. Their moms and grandmas have a 1/6 chance of Alzheimer's Disease, but people don't pay (donate) the $20 annually required to create an amazing foundational base of research, training, and development. So, when Medicare D is modified to buy the most cost-effective drug because of politics, the net options won't be as good. Because people don't understand Supply Side.
Like I said, if you're arguing politics on healthcare, but aren't donating money to research charities, you're doing the math wrong.
American Health Insurance is expensive because it suffers from a market failure (so free market doesn't provide efficient solutions) and the bandaid regulations aren't sufficient. It's also expensive because of wonky incentives. Both benefits AND insurances gets treated as a tax-deduction for employers. So, the more successful your company is, the cheaper it becomes to buy insurance for your employees. And that means that 'the rich' are bidding up prices with an unfair price advantage. American Health care is expensive because America Is Rich, and people will pay for health care. So, the people providing the goods and services are able to get paid good money.
And the final damage, in the longrun, is because people don't understand how Supply Side Economics (I personally blame Trickle Down Theory for confusing everyone). The way the entire market (mostly) is encourage is on the Demand Side. Your Boomer mother has a 1/6 chance of having Alzheimer's when she's 85. And so, Medicare D taxes everyone to incentivize Big Pharma to provide 'the best' Alzheimer meds for her in 20 years. It doesn't incentivise to have the best generic drug (i.e., off-patent and cheap). That's Demand Side.
Supply Side is when you actually pay to produce stuff, and there are many instances where it leads to the efficient outcome in the longrun. People aren't willing to pay for R&D. Their moms and grandmas have a 1/6 chance of Alzheimer's Disease, but people don't pay (donate) the $20 annually required to create an amazing foundational base of research, training, and development. So, when Medicare D is modified to buy the most cost-effective drug because of politics, the net options won't be as good. Because people don't understand Supply Side.
Like I said, if you're arguing politics on healthcare, but aren't donating money to research charities, you're doing the math wrong.
So, it's not particularly a Republican (or Democratic) problem (regarding the OP). It's a problem of short sightedness and greed?
I believe it's a multifaceted issue with many factors. There's no one thing.
Heathcare is expensive by it's very nature. There's a Caste of health professionals; doctors, nurses, technicians, therapists and support staff (salary, benefits, retirement). There's the physical plant - buildings, equipment, instruments and vehicles. Instruments are particularly and absurdly expensive. $250.00 for a stainless steel screw or plate - you'll need a dozen to fix your broken leg. $6000.00 for s Stryker drill you wouldn't pay $25.00 for in a Builder's Square. A set of stainless steel instruments is $10,000 - $25,000. An Olympus flexible scope is on the order of $15,000.00 to $50,000.00. CAT Scan, MRI, Rad/Onc machines - all in the millions of dollars. All overpriced because of locked-in contracts and surgeon's demands.
Our surgeons were convinced by sales reps that they needed DaVinci robots ($2,000,000.00 each) with a complete system of robotic arms, scopes and accessories. Before long, a second gen system was purchased, and then a third. The surgeons now use just the third gen system but all three were purchased at great expense - payed for by patients. I could go on, and probably will in further posts.
The American medical insurance industry also have their costs; half a million employees across the country - their salaries, benefits and retirement plans - buildings, computer systems, overhead, overpaid CEO's. In Canada all this is handled cheaply by a few government bureaucrats.
Furthermore, numerous agencies; Joint Commision, the CDC, the AMA, AORN, AAMI (literally dozens) are collectively a driving force for improvement in healthcare without regard to rising prices.
Clearly everyone has their pet theories, but I've been working in hospitals for nearly twenty years and medicine is inherently expensive and will become more so in the future. As healthcare improves, health costs will rise.
Clearly also, the American private insurance system is no longer viable, It is too cumbersome, it does not serve the poor, and corporations are gradually divesting themselves of employee benefits in the Gig economy.
America really has little choice. Only the Federal Government has the resources to provide health coverage for 300 million people.
I believe it's a multifaceted issue with many factors. There's no one thing.
Heathcare is expensive by it's very nature. There's a Caste of health professionals; doctors, nurses, technicians, therapists and support staff (salary, benefits, retirement). There's the physical plant - buildings, equipment, instruments and vehicles. Instruments are particularly and absurdly expensive. $250.00 for a stainless steel screw or plate - you'll need a dozen to fix your broken leg. $6000.00 for s Stryker drill you wouldn't pay $25.00 for in a Builder's Square. A set of stainless steel instruments is $10,000 - $25,000. An Olympus flexible scope is on the order of $15,000.00 to $50,000.00. CAT Scan, MRI, Rad/Onc machines - all in the millions of dollars. All overpriced because of locked-in contracts and surgeon's demands.
Our surgeons were convinced by sales reps that they needed DaVinci robots ($2,000,000.00 each) with a complete system of robotic arms, scopes and accessories. Before long, a second gen system was purchased, and then a third. The surgeons now use just the third gen system but all three were purchased at great expense - payed for by patients. I could go on, and probably will in further posts.
The American medical insurance industry also have their costs; half a million employees across the country - their salaries, benefits and retirement plans - buildings, computer systems, overhead, overpaid CEO's. In Canada all this is handled cheaply by a few government bureaucrats.
Furthermore, numerous agencies; Joint Commision, the CDC, the AMA, AORN, AAMI (literally dozens) are collectively a driving force for improvement in healthcare without regard to rising prices.
Clearly everyone has their pet theories, but I've been working in hospitals for nearly twenty years and medicine is inherently expensive and will become more so in the future. As healthcare improves, health costs will rise.
Clearly also, the American private insurance system is no longer viable, It is too cumbersome, it does not serve the poor, and corporations are gradually divesting themselves of employee benefits in the Gig economy.
America really has little choice. Only the Federal Government has the resources to provide health coverage for 300 million people.
Similar threads
- Locked
