2020 US Election (Part One)

[Takhisis]

Oh, that, too. I was thinking more of the ‘enemy of the day’ section on Hannity's programme.

 

[onejayhawk]

The right wing echo chamber is heavily emphasizing the (relative) youth of the women and laying the groundwork so that when they casually drop "Is Biden a pedophile?" it will fall on well prepared soil.

So politics as usual. That's expected.

Still, if the Democrats nominate Biden... Never mind. He has no real chance, which is a good thing.

J

 

[cardgame]

People with visas aren't coming in illegally. Who thinks the only people coming in at ports of entry are asylum seekers?

You're against illegal immigration yet you don't even understand illegal immigration.

If you're going to take such a strong stance on something you should at least know the basics. I don't have a very strong stance on a lot of things, because I don't know the details involved. There's nothing wrong with being uncertain. Only unwilling or unable to see.

 

[Lexicus]

You're against illegal immigration yet you don't even understand illegal immigration.

You can tell how anti-statist libertarians are by the degree to which they support the state brutalizing people for crossing an imaginary line drawn by the state.

 

[Sommerswerd]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=428479291292930

this is pretty creepy tbh

For the soundtrack, they should have gone with... Thank heaven... for little girls... thank heaven... for little girls ...

EDIT: Seriously... watch the clip on mute, with this song playing

The attack ad writes itself... Joe's in for some tough times...

I cannot even get Fox news. What are they saying?

LOLs... generally speaking... they're saying what you think But you knew that

 

[Tristan_C]

But drugs mainly come in through the ports of entry. If 80% of the drug seizures are made at ports of entry, then it follows logically that 80% of the drugs are coming in through the ports of entry.

We don't have to worry about any drugs getting across the border without being counted in the statistics.

Along the unguarded stretches of the border between ports of entry, we have deployed hundreds of millions of dogs that sniff each trafficker on his way across to verify that he is not carrying any drugs. The dog then submits a reassuring report to the DEA.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Somehow the idea of Tristan satirizing Berzerker never occurred to me as a possibility.

 

[Tristan_C]

Somehow the idea of Tristan satirizing Berzerker never occurred to me as a possibility.

I don't think zerker ever said anything to this effect. But the notion that drugs mainly come through ports of entry is a talking point that has been going around. Estebonrober said it to me some time ago on this thread (1552).

 

[onejayhawk]

LOLs... generally speaking... they're saying what you think But you knew that

I suspect from comments here, but I really cannot get them. No cable.

You can tell how anti-statist libertarians are by the degree to which they support the state brutalizing people for crossing an imaginary line drawn by the state.

What is imaginary about a border? Arbitrary I night grant you in some cases. Invisible in many. Imaginary, almost never.

J

 

[Berzerker]

Based on your previous post, apparently you. You used (number of asylum seekers at port of entry) < (number of asylum seekers crossing between ports of entry) to refute "wall won't stop many people because most people cross at port of entry," and implied that somehow your factoid inequality proved the people saying that were lying. As usual, you either completely failed to grasp that the two things don't correlate, or you were just casting bait hoping someone would point out that you were wrong so you could have a fight.

/troll induced thread derailment

The wall wasn't proposed to block visa holders, why include them in the data? I sure dont, why do you? The people I cited on MSNBC were providing raw numbers without including visa holders, just asylum seekers - and the majority were apprehended between ports of entry. I never said only asylum seekers use ports of entry and the 55k number are just those that were caught and doesn't include people who were not asylum seekers. More asylum seekers avoid ports of entry, thats gotta be true for the people entering illegally. Visa holders aint got nothing to do with it.

Trump - build the wall to reduce illegal immigration
Media - most people come in on visas

So what? They're not coming in illegally.

You're against illegal immigration yet you don't even understand illegal immigration.

If you're going to take such a strong stance on something you should at least know the basics. I don't have a very strong stance on a lot of things, because I don't know the details involved. There's nothing wrong with being uncertain. Only unwilling or unable to see.

I understand illegal immigration enough to know people with visas are not entering the country illegally and wont be stopped by a wall. And I know distorting the data by including visa holders in with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants who would be stopped by a wall is misleading.

You can tell how anti-statist libertarians are by the degree to which they support the state brutalizing people for crossing an imaginary line drawn by the state.

I support open borders, or at least open once we can confirm people coming in aren't criminals or carrying diseases. This is about the media, they have us believing the number of people crossing between ports of entry was too small to bother with because most come in at ports of entry. They included people with visas entering legally to make that argument to minimize the effect of a wall. Didn't you support Obama? Wasn't he the deporter in chief for 8 years of brutalizing people for crossing an imaginary line?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Trump - build the wall and make mexico pay for it to reduce illegal immigration
Media - most people come in on visas
So what? They're not coming in illegally. only drug dealers and rapists come from the border

Fixed

First problem is that the wall was suppose to be paid for by mexico, but now that the US taxpayer are footing the bill
Second is if Republicans are concerned about illegal immigration and drugs they would be spending more taxpayer money on port security, mail checks and deportations of visa over stayers
Third is Companies and employees arent punished for hiring illegals (e.g Trump organization, Nunes family farm etc)

Its a wedge issue, Republicans have built up for decades now

 

[cardgame]

Trump - build the wall to reduce illegal immigration
Media - most people come in on visas

So what? They're not coming in illegally.

I understand illegal immigration enough to know people with visas are not entering the country illegally and wont be stopped by a wall.

As the Trump administration demands funding for a border wall to stop illegal immigration, a new study finds that for the seventh consecutive year, visa overstays far exceeded unauthorized border crossings.

The report released Wednesday by the Center for Migration Studies of New York finds that from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally.

I don't know what else to say.

And I know distorting the data by including visa holders in with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants who would be stopped by a wall is misleading.

Right, so this distortion would only make visa immigrants an even larger proportion of illegal immigrants, therefore, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, only making you even more wrong.

 

[Berzerker]

We're not talking about visa overstays, a wall wont stop them.

 

[Takhisis]

So you're admitting that a wall is pointless and useless?

 

[Berzerker]

No, I'm saying a wall wont stop people entering on visas. They're legal and coming in at ports of entry. The wall was proposed to stop people who aren't coming in at ports of entry and who dont have visas.

edit: and apparently of all the people who do come in illegally more avoid ports of entry and cross the desert and many die as a result. The media turns that fact into "most people come in at ports of entry", no wall is needed.

 

[cardgame]

A visa overstay is not legal.

 

[Takhisis]

Yeah, but, no, but yeah, but

you're so wrong

like

 

[Berzerker]

A visa overstay is not legal.

The wall doesn't stop visa holders or overstays, its supposed to deter non visa holders from crossing the desert. If the majority of people coming in illegally or seeking asylum bypass ports of entry then its misleading to include people with visas to argue most people use ports of entry. Most of the people entering illegally or seeking asylum dont use ports of entry.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The wall doesn't stop visa holders or overstays, its supposed to deter non visa holders from crossing the desert. If the majority of people coming in illegally or seeking asylum bypass ports of entry then its misleading to include people with visas to argue most people use ports of entry. Most of the people entering illegally or seeking asylum dont use ports of entry.

So Why not punish companies and employees ? If no one employs illegals then there are no jobs for illegals wouldn't that solve the problem ? (both border crossing and visa over stayers)
Has no one is the Republican party thought about this ???

The Nunes family farm may employ undocumented immigrants. Lizza talks to anonymous sources who claim that the Nunes farm uses undocumented workers, and he talks to other people on the record who say almost every dairy farm in Sibley, Iowa, where the dairy farm is located, also uses undocumented workers. “In every conversation I had with dairy farmers and industry insiders in northwest Iowa, it was taken as a fact that the local dairies are wholly dependent on undocumented labor,” he writes.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...covered/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b7cbdaf9f72f

 

[cardgame]

The wall doesn't stop visa holders or overstays, its supposed to deter non visa holders from crossing the desert. If the majority of people coming in illegally or seeking asylum bypass ports of entry then its misleading to include people with visas to argue most people use ports of entry. Most of the people entering illegally or seeking asylum dont use ports of entry.

I mean I literally just posted upthread that this is exactly false. Most of our illegal immigrants come here through visas.