2020 US Election (Part One)

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I'm afraid to ask because this way leads to madness but . . .

Where is the hypocrisy here? Do you even know what the word means?

You just quoted an example in your post: 'whataboutism' is a hypocritical argument because you guys never call your own side on it. Just like you (Sommers) did there.

Dems accuse Repubs
Dems are guilty too
Dems defend their hypocrisy with 'whataboutism'

Dems are accused
Republicans did it too
Dems are silent about whataboutism
 
Well, that's disappointing. I didn't know about the ties to Modi, and had thought some of those appearances on conservative shows were more attempts to pitch good ideas to bad people, but she seems more hawkish than that. I guess I'll adjust my tally of good candidates back down to zero.

There's really never going to be a worthwhile candidate, is there? We've never had one before, and there's no sign of one now. I'll still support the lesser evil, but it seems there's no chance of ever improving beyond that.
 
Eugene Debs? Lincoln?
Don't know much about Debs other than that, as a prisoner, he was not a practical choice.

I think if we were around in 1859 we'd have said that, as a non-abolitionist who tolerated slavery, Lincoln wouldn't have embodied our ideals and wasn't sufficiently abolitionist. He'd be like a neo-liberal running today. That he abolished slavery at all was only because of the Civil War.
 
Yeah, but it would be like a neoliberal in some sort of reforming fascist polity having elections for the first time.
 
Yeah, but it would be like a neoliberal in some sort of reforming fascist polity having elections for the first time.
That's why I'm saying we've never had a good candidate, only lesser evils. A neoliberal is still mediocre or bad even if the opposition is outright evil; they're just less unpreferable.
 
Eugene Debs? Lincoln?
Mondale? McGovern? Heck, even Carter was the most morally decent person to ever be President.

Anyhow, I'm not a fan of Gabbard for the reasons mentions above. I'm also not a fan of Julian Castro, mainly because I utterly fail to see what he has done to qualify him to be President. He was the mayor of San Antonio and managed to avoid national attention, good or bad. Then he was Secretary of HUD for two years where he seemed to accomplish absolutely nothing in breathing new life into HUD or even stopping its pathetic and terminal decline. He then disappeared for two years and now thinks he is Presidential material? I think not.
Also not a fan of Gillibrand. Was a centrist/corporate democrat and now is that with a fresh coat of paint proclaiming her "woke" credentials which boils down to "capitalism, with more women in the boardroom". Plus there was the way she turned on Franken. Given Franken's "offenses" consisted of an old picture of him messing around with a fellow comedian*, some off color jokes, and allegations his hands got a bit wandering in photo ops while his wife was present. She seems like Hillary by way of Wall Street and knows how to use 'woke' language to paper over a solidly neoliberal agenda. Not going to be getting much support from me.

Of course, I'm still going to vote for whoever the Dems nominate, and encourage people to vote for them. Get Attila the Trump out of office and then lets pick up the pieces.

*It is worth remembering how vicious Franken's 2008 campaign was. The GOP was going through old SNL outtakes and using those to attack Franken. It was a hard fought campaign and he just barely managed to cross the finish line. If Franken had lost to the GOP, the Dems wouldn't have their supermajority and say good bye to ACA and all the good things they did in 2009-2010. That the picture didn't come up then, but rather came out after Roger Stone tweeted about it and after Franken started making a real name for himself going after the FCC/Net Neutrality issue and Sessions. Smells like blatant political hit that Gillibrand went along with either due to a lack of political instinct as to what was behind it, or because she had too much political instinct and wanted to make a name for herself.
 

From the article:

Gabbard’s objections to US wars spring not from a concern for those parts of the world the US military bombs and invades, but exclusively from a concern about the Americans who fight them. As she told Truthout in 2012, her own military service in Iraq and Kuwait “changed my life completely” and revealed the “tremendous cost of war,” recounting the daily casualties and injuries to US troop she saw when she was deployed in a medical unit.

“The cost of war impacts all of us — both in the human cost and the cost that’s being felt frankly in places like Flint, Michigan, where families and children are devastated and destroyed by completely failed infrastructure because of lack of investment,” she told Glamour magazine in March last year.

This also formed the thrust of her speech at 2012’s (particularly militaristic) DNC, where she told the crowd, “As a combat veteran, I know the costs of war. The sacrifices made by our troops and our military families are immeasurable.”

There’s nothing wrong, of course, with expressing empathy for the soldiers who are sent to fight, lose limbs, and die in wars of choice launched by their political leaders. The suffering they and their families endure is heartbreaking, especially considering that many join the military because they lack any other economic opportunities. And the money spent on wars abroad would surely be better used on infrastructure at home.

But Gabbard’s almost singular focus on the damage these wars inflict domestically, and her comparative lack of focus on the carnage they wreak in the countries under attack, is troubling. It is nationalism in antiwar garb, reinforcing instead of undercutting the toxic rhetoric that treats foreigners as less deserving of dignity than Americans. (Gabbard’s brand of anti-interventionism has even received praise from former KKK grand wizard David Duke, who called for her to be named secretary of state.)

And it still produces its fair share of bloodshed. Like campaign-era Trump, Gabbard may be against miring the United States in blunderous, short-sighted conflicts that backfire, but she’s more than willing to use America’s military might to go after suspected terrorists around the world (and inevitably kill and maim civilians in the process). In the same Truthout interview, responding to a question about drones, Gabbard said that “there is a place for the use of this technology, as well as smaller, quick-strike special force teams versus tens, if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers occupying space within a country.”

It’s a point she’s repeated again and again. Responding to questions from Honolulu Civil Beat in 2012, Gabbard said that “the best way to defeat the terrorists is through strategically placed, small quick-strike special forces and drones — the strategy that took out Osama Bin Laden.” She told Fox in 2014 that she would direct “the great military that we have” to conduct “unconventional strategic precise operations to take out these terrorists wherever they are.” The same year, she told Civil Beat that military strategy must “put the safety of Americans above all else” and “utilize our highly skilled special operations forces, work with and support trusted foreign partners to seek and destroy this threat.”

“In short, when it comes to the war against terrorists, I’m a hawk,” she told the Hawaii Tribune-Herald last year. “When it comes to counterproductive wars of regime change, I’m a dove.”

In other words, Gabbard would continue the Obama administration’s foreign policy, which itself was a continuation (and in some ways ramping up) of George W. Bush’s foreign policy.”

If that was true why did she oppose arms sales to the Saudis? I figure its because they're killing Yemenis with our weapons. And David Duke has praised her anti-interventionism? I guess that means we gotta invade more countries lest we agree with David Duke. Obama and Bush are fans of regime change, using drones is not regime change. And if we actually were anti-interventionist we wouldn't need drones to hunt down terrorists, our war on terror was self-inflicted by following interventionists into the Middle East.
 
You just quoted an example in your post: 'whataboutism' is a hypocritical argument because you guys never call your own side on it. Just like you (Sommers) did there.

Dems accuse Repubs
Dems are guilty too
Dems defend their hypocrisy with 'whataboutism'

Dems are accused
Republicans did it too
Dems are silent about whataboutism

What the hell are you talking about? What does any of that have to do with the article you posted?
 
What the hell are you talking about? What does any of that have to do with the article you posted?

You asked me to identify the hypocrisy and I quoted it, "'whataboutism' is a hypocritical argument because you guys never call your own side on it. Just like you did there."

You didn't mention the article and I cant read your mind so I quoted what I posted. The hypocrisy on display in the article is a group of Democrat senators sworn to prohibit religious tests attacking conservative Catholics while condemning Trump for accusing a judge of bias.

Does it have to?

No, it doesn't... He didn't ask me about the article.
 
'whataboutism'

Clinton, Obama, a roster of three-letter agencies and the news media investigate Trump for corruption. [insert raucous laughter]

Sure, dismissing the accusations on account of the source is a logical fallacy. But the behavior of the source nevertheless gives you an indicator of whether the the topic is important or expedient, and the accusations are made in good faith or bad. These questions are unscientific but always matter in politics.
 
The hypocrisy on display in the article is a group of Democrat senators sworn to prohibit religious tests attacking conservative Catholics while condemning Trump for accusing a judge of bias.

People are Catholics by choice. The groups a person associated with, they associate with by choice. So it is reasonable to conclude they agree with at least some of the philosophical beliefs of those organizations, and also reasonable to ask if they believe things that those groups believe that might lead them to make inappropriate rulings as a judge.

The fact that you would equate this with being of Mexican descent is just insane. Really. You don't pick your heritage. You can, however, choose your religious affiliation. Another instance where you are just making a dumb claim of equivalence which probably just means you're racist.
 
270 has an interactive senate map for 2020
 
Lets start with the premise that Bernie can't get the nomination. Who do folks feel the best about in that case?

I'm hearing that folks don't like Warren, don't like Harris, don't like Newsom, don't like Gabbard,... I think I'd been fine with any of those... I'm also seeing that folks don't like Biden,don't like Castro, don't like Booker, either of whom seem better than Trump to me... although I admit that I do worry that Biden is a sure recipe for a repeat of 2004.

Is it Beto that folks want? Are we waiting for someone better and as-yet unknown to emerge? Or is it Bernie-or-Bust again?
 
Lets start with the premise that Bernie can't get the nomination. Who do folks feel the best about in that case?

I'm hearing that folks don't like Warren, don't like Harris, don't like Newsom, don't like Gabbard,... I think I'd been fine with any of those... I'm also seeing that folks don't like Biden,don't like Castro, don't like Booker, either of whom seem better than Trump to me... although I admit that I do worry that Biden is a sure recipe for a repeat of 2004.

Is it Beto that folks want? Are we waiting for someone better and as-yet unknown to emerge? Or is it Bernie-or-Bust again?

I like warren since her and I are about as close politically as anyone else running right now. I know she won’t win because President is a popularity contest and she isn’t a cool enough nerd to win America’s prom king competition.
 
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