2020 US Election (Part One)

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The point in the "extra steps" is that they sidestep resistance, which otherwise needs to be just browbeaten into submission.

Or they result in a crappy half-measure that serves only to kick the problem down the road. See: the ACA. Reforming healthcare necessarily entails the depredation of a politically and economically powerful group of capitalists. Resistance will be inevitable. Browbeating into submission is the only way this problem will ever be solved.
 
How very Republican of you.

Oh really? In what way am I advocating for the enrichment of Capitalists? In what way am I seeking to deny rights to a disempowered minority? In what way am I actively working towards the denial of others' health, or well-being? The Republicans are not despicable because of their tactics. They are despicable because their policies are morally reprehensible.

One more time for the people in the back:

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

...

"In spite of my shattered dreams of the past, I came to Birmingham with the hope that the white religious leadership of this community would see the justice of our cause, and with deep moral concern, serve as the channel through which our just grievances would get to the power structure. I had hoped that each of you would understand. But again I have been disappointed. I have heard numerous religious leaders of the South call upon their worshippers to comply with a desegregation decision because it is the law, but I have longed to hear white ministers say, "follow this decree because integration is morally right and the Negro is your brother." In the midst of blatant injustices inflicted upon the Negro, I have watched white churches stand on the sideline and merely mouth pious irrelevancies and sanctimonious trivialities. In the midst of a mighty struggle to rid our nation of racial and economic injustice, I have heard so many ministers say, "those are social issues with which the gospel has no real concern.", and I have watched so many churches commit themselves to a completely other-worldly religion which made a strange distinction between body and soul, the sacred and the secular.

So here we are moving toward the exit of the twentieth century with a religious community largely adjusted to the status quo, standing as a tail-light behind other community agencies rather than a headlight leading men to higher levels of justice."
 
Oh really? In what way am I advocating for the enrichment of Capitalists? In what way am I seeking to deny rights to a disempowered minority? In what way am I actively working towards the denial of others' health, or well-being? The Republicans are not despicable because of their tactics. They are despicable because their policies are morally reprehensible.

One more time for the people in the back:
Don't rock the boat!
 
Why do you hate America?!
'cause i'm Canadian!:nya::mwaha::backstab:
Plus the all-powerful purple wombat in my coffee cup is having a smackdown with a leprechawn and distributing multi-flavored keychains while t5rying to steal my coffee-flavored doorhinge.
 
Or they result in a crappy half-measure that serves only to kick the problem down the road. See: the ACA. Reforming healthcare necessarily entails the depredation of a politically and economically powerful group of capitalists. Resistance will be inevitable. Browbeating into submission is the only way this problem will ever be solved.

Point of order, the ACA was intended to have a public option. The ACA passed the House and had 59 Senators willing to vote for it. The ACA was intended to go a lot further. It became a crappy half-measure because the public option got yanked at the last moment.

But what's the point of all these extra steps? If the objective is to get everybody on the public option, why not just put everybody on the public option?

Politics, mostly. Like I said, I am indifferent to the policy itself. Abolishing private pay for most care is fine by me. But I also recognize that people like the illusion of control that choice gives them. And private enterprise loves to brag about how well it does things. So, you can provide people an illusion of control and dispel the stupid notion that private business is inherently more efficient than government by allowing companies to compete with the public option.

I agree with you, this doesn't improve the policy in any way. But it doesn't make it worse, and it does have some benefits to it which may make it more palatable and can expose the fraud of "private enterprise."
 
Oh really? In what way am I advocating for the enrichment of Capitalists? In what way am I seeking to deny rights to a disempowered minority? In what way am I actively working towards the denial of others' health, or well-being? The Republicans are not despicable because of their tactics. They are despicable because their policies are morally reprehensible.

I don't disagree. However, that doesn't make their tactics not also despicable. It also doesn't make adopting their tactics look very promising as a long term strategy.

As I said earlier, persuasion is required. Perhaps you can get the same short term result with browbeating, but I'd rather see the GOP take a permanently crippling beating than see them lose a battle at the cost of strengthening them for the war.
 
'cause i'm Canadian!:nya::mwaha::backstab:

I always knew that whole "nice and friendly" thing was a act. I mean, I once accidentally bumped into someone in Canada and then they apologized to me. As if it was there fault for standing there and should have realized that I was in a hurry and they were in direct line to where I was going. I knew something was fishy at that point.
 
That is certainly the GOP's gameplan, yes.
 
That is certainly the GOP's gameplan, yes.
That's the really sick part. It was the Democrat's playbook.

The Republicans kept pointing out that the numbers didn't work. It was true, but instead of everyone checking the numbers, the Republicans were labeled obstructionist and ignored. It was the worst case of brass knuckle, main force legislation Since Vietnam at least.

J
 
The Republicans kept pointing out that the numbers didn't work. It was true, but instead of everyone checking the numbers, the Republicans were labeled obstructionist and ignored.

J

Funny how in places that weren't burdened with Republican governors it seemed to work out just fine. Even in Ohio which had a Republican governor it worked just fine. Of course he got excoriated by the Republican party for his failure to "prove it didn't work." Just not willing enough to put party before people I guess.
 
That's the really sick part. It was the Democrat's playbook.
The Republicans kept pointing out that the numbers didn't work. It was true, but instead of everyone checking the numbers, the Republicans were labeled obstructionist and ignored. It was the worst case of brass knuckle, main force legislation Since Vietnam at least. J

It required healthy people to join in the market and for people not to abuse the per-exisiting conditions by getting treated and then leaving the market
The first part of the mandate was pretty much dead as Republicans ruthlessly undercut this, discouraging participation and actively telling everyone not to purchase obamacare
The later are loopholes which needed to be fixed, as people whom are sick got treated and then stop paying. But you already know about this and you know why these were never fixed
By the second year the cost blow out was pretty clear, too many sick people signing up and not enough healthy young people joining

Dont worry J, Trump promised to protect Pre-exisiting condition coverage from being removed by the evil democrats coming for your healthcare /s
 
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Elizabeth Warren announced today, she could become our first American Indian President

Too many progressives will benefit someone like Biden by diluting the left and concentrating the center
 
Elizabeth Warren announced today, she could become our first American Indian President

Too many progressives will benefit someone like Biden by diluting the left and concentrating the center

What center?
 
The depressident is already saying that the Democrats cannot ‘legitimately’ win the 2020 election.
 
The depressident is already saying that the Democrats cannot ‘legitimately’ win the 2020 election.
Republicans have long believed that any Democrat in office is illegitimate. This is probably going to lead to violent armed opposition to one taking office soon.
 
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