2020 US Election (Part One)

[Old Hippy]

At risk of being called a free market conservative I have to ask...how exactly do you think this "giving jobs" process is supposed to work? If there's a market, there will be jobs. That's just how it works. The whole "put up a shed and fix local farm equipment" thing you mentioned earlier is generally absurd in the situation described. There is a big town some short distance away. There's a shop there, almost unquestionably, that provides that service to not only this community but other small communities in the region. That's how said shop gets enough cumulative business to survive.

I don't think anyone would say "small towns shouldn't have jobs."

no but the general consensus here has been ''STUFF THESE DEPLORABLES THEY ARE ALL WHITE RACISTS'' or have i been misreading the general atmosphere here about rural America
if so i apologise for taking the thread off on tangent, it would be the first time
but you are saying that with the increase in chinese tariffs no one would put up a shed and start producing farm gates as that would be generally absurd
you towns dying your an unemployed coal miner that has wielding skills
it would be absurd not to try something

What I'm taking exception to is this idea that the only thing keeping them from having jobs is that oppression by @HoloDoc is preventing the jobs fairy from waving her magic wand. My experience of small towns is much like his...there's the local market/gas station/place with a bulletin board, usually staffed by a family member and sometimes by someone banging a family member, and that's it because that's all that is needed.

the jobs fairy is Obama saying manufacturing jobs have gone and are not coming back unless you have a magic wand.I think he was right
the magic wand is Trumps tariffs Just like China. EU, South Korea Japan.India trade barriers distorts their free trade it distorts the "so called free market" except it does so for the US benefit making jobs in the US more competitive. All them rural farm gates that were once made locally now can again be made locally to specification by small efficient business unless you tell your daughter to bang a welder you have to hire or train a welder

That's how said shop gets enough cumulative business to survive.

you need to take into account the size of the pie with a booming economy the pie gets bigger
with 3.1 million people coming off food stamps that's a lot of business that have customers with more money to spend and like you say its a cumulative effect
those business do better invest in expansion employ more staff,more people have more money to spend

http://checkyourfact.com/2018/08/02/fact-check-trump-food-stamps/

 

[HoloDoc]

So you think the way to bring back rural jobs is to start a trade war and destroy the economy?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

All them rural farm gates that were once made locally now can again be made locally to specification by small efficient business unless you tell your daughter to bang a welder you have to hire or train a welder

LOL...you ARE seriously a city dweller. Just how many frickin' gates do you think a farm consumes annually? In a decade? Over the entire life of the farm?

Get a grip dude.

 

[Old Hippy]

Why would we establish that giving jobs to small towns is a bad idea? Where has anyone said that? What the hell are you talking about?


And? Is anyone running for election on a platform of: "Let's keep jobs away from rural areas. Screw farmers!"

many farmers/ steelworkers/ car manufacturing workers thought OBAMA was....

No knew loves to a town with less than 100 people for employment opportunities. Except in very rare circumstances, such as being the only doctor in town or something, such as in Northern Exposure. Even then, it is usually a local who fills that position.


What exactly do you think I'm arguing? I have literally no idea WTH you are talking about. You're arguing against points NO ONE has made.

then why post I don't think your arguing anything actually I'm just responding to the points you seem to disagree with me on .... its simple my point is the US has Trump as president because middle America thinks they were forgotten about

It's no secret that some rural towns, particularly ones with manufacturing backgrounds, are suffering. So? Did anyone argue otherwise? Those towns don't have population under 100 people.

Honestly, unless you start making some damn sense, I'm done with you. Your posts are incoherent on an almost r16 level. And he at least has a certain quaint charm.

Again why post if you have no idea what I'm talking about.... you can not make coherent replies when you don't understand the points your trying to respond to... seems odd like saying people don't move to small towns and want work which is a point you did say
I'll repeat again I'm not arguing against anything only the general consensus that all the deplorables are white racist that seems common to me here as the reason Trump is President
if no one thinks that I apologize for derailing the thread
but understanding that jobs and economic growth is why middle America rural voters and the rust belt voters gave the US Trump as president seems an important point when discussing the 2020 election

 

[Old Hippy]

LOL...you ARE seriously a city dweller. Just how many frickin' gates do you think a farm consumes annually? In a decade? Over the entire life of the farm?

Get a grip dude.

take a drive in the country side count the farms between towns multiply by 5 or 10 for gates, someone has been making a nice living off them... chances are they are chinese not to mention HOME depot

 

[HoloDoc]

You're the one who started this discussion, and are now saying I misunderstood you all along, when you have been attacking posts I never made? No one said Trump didn't win over rural voters. Try to be coherent, please. I think I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

take a drive in the country side count the farms between towns multiply by 5 or 10, someone has been making a nice living off them... chances are they are chinese

Chances are that 99 out of a hundred are older than I am. Gates aren't a consumable.

 

[HoloDoc]

Yeah, my stepfather is actually a fencer by trade. He's the guy who builds those gates. They are still constructed locally, although the steel comes from elsewhere. So not really the best argument. In fact, we actually export such gates to China - and Dubai, which pays millions for Australian fencers, much to my stepfather's annoyance, as he is t one of them - so you really don't know what you're talking about here.

Edit: crosspost

 

[Old Hippy]

Yeah, my stepfather is actually a fencer by trade. He's the guy who builds those gates. They are still constructed locally, although the steel comes from elsewhere. So not really the best argument. In fact, we actually export such gates to China - and Dubai, which pays millions for Australian fencers, much to my stepfather's annoyance, as he is t one of them - so you really don't know what you're talking about here.

Edit: crosspost

well I'm definitely not talking to an entrepreneur who knows about finding a niche in the market and filling it
you lack of foresight to think this is about just gates astounds me
you also make the point that making farm gates in Australia leads to an export market and someone is still making gates
my point about Americans with manufacturing skills is that they are as good as us AUSSIES

 

[HoloDoc]

well I'm definitely not talking to an entrepreneur who knows about finding a niche in the market and filling it
you lack of foresight to think this is about just gates astounds me

Now that's just an active strawman. We were literally discussing gates as an example, and now you're claiming I'm foolish for thinking the entire discussion is just about gates. Cut the crap.

And he's hardly an entrepreneur. He's a goddamn moron, and a child abuser to boot. He is an electrician who burnt his own house down by wiring it incorrectly, much to my mirth and merriment.

 

[Old Hippy]

. Cut the crap

Sorry... its late here in Melbourne I'm going to bed
I mistook your crosspost with tim as saying it was about actual gates

 

[Estebonrober]

Of course the old hippy is right. Farmers and small town America have become convinced democrats were screwing them. Of course that’s not accurate. The only thing obama did to hurt farmers was the clean waterways epa thing. That was a big deal for farmers I do understand that. Of course it’s roll back means we are all consuming pesticide infested water and have death blooms the size of Texas in the Gulf of Mexico.

No decision on the federal level should be easy. Trumps disregard for this reality is indicative of his failure as a leader.

 

[Gori the Grey]

No decision on the federal level should be easy. Trumps disregard for this reality is indicative of his failure as a leader.

This is nicely put.

 

[Traitorfish]

the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda and lobbied them on behalf of the multinationals that was referred to in the post I was responding to the very same rich capitalists that were known as ''Never Trumpers''

Who were you under the impression funded the Trump campaign?

Just because Trump wasn't the favourite of the financial sector doesn't place him somehow outside of the ruling class.

 

[Old Hippy]

Who were you under the impression funded the Trump campaign?

not these donors https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=N00000019
I actually said the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda
the main stream media funded his campaign by everytime he said something odd playing it over and over thus getting Trump 'the long shot' billions of media coverage for free, along with clinton who place the word TRUMP on millions of stickers saying love Trumps hate
just how many democrats have shouted "LOVE TRUMPS''
You run a cheap campaign nothing better than getting your opponent to use your brand name millions of times with people even chanting it in the streets... it shows your a serious challenger

Just because Trump wasn't the favourite of the financial sector doesn't place him somehow outside of the ruling class.

By definition being President makes one the ruling class... not outside it, so i did not say he was outside the ruling class I have said he was talking to people who thought he had their interests at heart against the traditional ruling class
Again I actually said the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda not that the RINO's funded him. Notice how now the Republicans agenda is not now about totally free trade at any cost but is about jobs and bring back them jobs at the expense of multi nationals who had gone to CHINA/MEXICO/CANADA/SOUTH KOREA/EU

 

[Hygro]

Booker is in. Warren is in (but there's one thing she needs to watch). Cuomo is in. Harris is out (though I'm sad to lose her on just that count). Beto would be in, but you can't go from being a loser for senate to being a hopeful for pres (even despite Trump's similar lack of qualifications).

Yes you can it's only your own reservation holding your vote hostage.

According to wikipedia vocal fry is a low-frequency sound though, so that doesn't make any sense to me?

It's not really though. Like yeah, you hold the voice low for the root note but then you also tighten away the volume of the low frequencies while amplifying the high parts. It's a voice driven by the character of the harmonic overtones in the mid and high frequencies.

 

[Traitorfish]

not these donors https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contributors?id=N00000019
I actually said the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda

So he has different rich donors. Again, that doesn't place him outside of the ruling class.

 

[Old Hippy]

So he has different rich donors. Again, that doesn't place him outside of the ruling class.

I agree totally.
He is in the ruling class... he is the president who got voted in by the not ruling class deplorables

 

[Lexicus]

He is in the ruling class... he is the president who got voted in by the not ruling class deplorables

His supporters had a higher average income than Hillary's. There is strong evidence that Hillary did better with lower-income people than he did.

What he got was whites without college degrees, many of whom actually are in the "ruling class" because they grew up at a time when success, even unto the tune of millions of dollars, did not require a college degree. Many of the people in my union do not have college degrees and are millionaires because they've been able to use their union contract money to get into real estate.

 

[Old Hippy]

His supporters had a higher average income than Hillary's. There is strong evidence that Hillary did better with lower-income people than he did.

I never said they were poor i said they were the deplorables and they needs were not being looked after by the ruling class who by the way 8 years previously voted for Obama and the democrats overwhelmingly as I'm sure you must know

What he got was whites without college degrees, many of whom actually are in the "ruling class" because they grew up at a time when success, even unto the tune of millions of dollars, did not require a college degree. Many of the people in my union do not have college degrees and are millionaires because they've been able to use their union contract money to get into real estate.

I qualify for this group but no way would I say I was the ruling class. even though I'm in Australia neither would any of my comrades in the militant extreme left wing CFMEU (Construction, Forestry, Maritime, Mining and Energy Union) but I would say I expect the people I vote for to look after my interests which seems to be something the democrats failed to do in the US hence Obama's shocking showing during the mid terms and something Hillary failed to address in any way, you cannot lose large potions of voters and not expect them to care
she played the white race deplorables card and lost... while Trump addressed peoples needs about the economy and jobs and is President
I would not have voted for him... after so many years of being a socialist and fighting for workers rights against right wing governments but i understand why his message struck fertile ground with the electors
Any government must get a consensus of the middle ground if they wish to gain power