2020 US Election (Part One)

[metatron]

jackals

The matter of my relative punchability remains curiously unresolved.

Just sayin'.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I live in Melbourne Australia

I am actually a Londoner

Your support of Trump makes more sense now.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The matter of my relative punchability remains curiously unresolved.

Large ocean. Thousands of miles. Anonymity. I'd say the matter is more completely settled than pretty much anything else that has ever been discussed on this forum.

 

[Lexicus]

Let me try again...if the centrists from both parties come to agreement the lack of enthusiasm from the extremists doesn't matter.

I'm not talking about the 'extremists' on the Democratic side; I'm talking about a substantial part (possibly a straight majority) of their electoral coalition. If appealing the center was a foolproof strategy Hillary would have won the election by a landslide instead of losing because her foredoomed attempt to win over the white moderates in the suburbs turned off the core parts of the Democratic coalition.

The truth is there is no 'vital center' at all...the mass of the population is non-ideological, not ideologically centrist. Centrism in itself is not a real motive force, which is why movements like Macron that sell themselves as centrist are inevitably just conservative-but-won't-admit-it (it works similarly with forum posters funnily enough).

The matter of my relative punchability remains curiously unresolved.

I feel like I already told you on fiftychat or something that you fall into the not-punch category?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm not talking about the 'extremists' on the Democratic side; I'm talking about a substantial part (possibly a straight majority) of their electoral coalition. If appealing the center was a foolproof strategy Hillary would have won the election by a landslide instead of losing because her foredoomed attempt to win over the white moderates in the suburbs turned off the core parts of the Democratic coalition.
.

No she wouldn't, because the center is divided into RINOs and DINOs, for lack of better terms. Since Hillary couldn't appeal to RINOS, she desperately needed the extremists of the Democratic party, even though they aren't actually the majority, even in the party much less the electorate. RINOs and deplorables voted for Trump, DINOs voted for Clinton, and democrat extremists stayed home and pouted...you know that as well as I do, and complained about it at the time.

I'd say the the make up of the two parties is similar. The GOP is 60% RINOs and 40% deplorables. The Democratic party is 60% DINOs and 40% extremists.

 

[Lexicus]

DINOs voted for Clinton, and democrat extremists stayed home and pouted...you know that as well as I do, and complained about it at the time.

I mean, I complained that lots of leftists wouldn't vote for Clinton. But I don't think it's accurate to call them "democratic extremists" because they were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway. I always maintained that people who supported Bernie in the primary mostly turned up for Hillary in the general, and that the people who voted for Bernie then didn't vote for Hillary were never voting for a Democrat (unless the Democrat turned out to be Bernie which we all knew wouldn't happen).

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I mean, I complained that lots of leftists wouldn't vote for Clinton. But I don't think it's accurate to call them "democratic extremists" because they were never going to vote for a Democrat anyway. I always maintained that people who supported Bernie in the primary mostly turned up for Hillary in the general, and that the people who voted for Bernie then didn't vote for Hillary were never voting for a Democrat (unless the Democrat turned out to be Bernie which we all knew wouldn't happen).

Just like there are "purists" in the deplorable crowd that won't turn out to vote for what they call a RINO. A politician in either party has to look at two factors:

1) compared to my opponent where can I place the line between RINO and DINO?

2) how much of the extremist crowd on "my side" can I get to turn out?

Everything you do that helps on the one hand hurts on the other; that's just the way it works. This unfortunately puts a premium on "dog whistling." Can I say something that excites my extremists but somehow slides under the radar at the nebulous "INO barrier"?

 

[Lexicus]

Just like there are "purists" in the deplorable crowd that won't turn out to vote for what they call a RINO.

Well this gets into hazy definition issues but my contention is that calling the Bernie folks who wouldn't vote for Hillary "Democrats" in any sense is misleading because those were people who were not engaged in Democratic Party politics and rarely if ever voted for Democrats other than the 2016 primary to vote for Bernie.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well this gets into hazy definition issues but my contention is that calling the Bernie folks who wouldn't vote for Hillary "Democrats" in any sense is misleading because those were people who were not engaged in Democratic Party politics and rarely if ever voted for Democrats other than the 2016 primary to vote for Bernie.

Democrat dog whistling has been extremely ineffective.

 

[Traitorfish]

He took the party from the rich Capitalists

Trump is richer than all previous presidents combined and then tripled, what are you even talking about.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Trump is richer than all previous presidents combined and then tripled, what are you even talking about.

I know! I know!

Nonsense that Republicans tell themselves! That's what he's talking about!

 

[Old Hippy]

Trump is richer than all previous presidents combined and then tripled, what are you even talking about.

the party whose orthodoxy held that there is literally no higher social good than producing profits for shareholders

the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda and lobbied them on behalf of the multinationals that was referred to in the post I was responding to the very same rich capitalists that were known as ''Never Trumpers''

 

[Lexicus]

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/14/6671...ime-for-2020-democratic-presidential-hopefuls

This article's got a loooong list of potential contenders.

I'm curious what folks from the LA area think about Garcetti.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/14/6671...ime-for-2020-democratic-presidential-hopefuls

This article's got a loooong list of potential contenders.

I'm curious what folks from the LA area think about Garcetti.

Good mayor, generally, in my opinion. Basically, anyone who can manage Los Angeles without having the whole thing blow up has to be better than average competent.

 

[metalhead]

the rich capitalist that traditionally funded the Republicans agenda and lobbied them on behalf of the multinationals that was referred to in the post I was responding to the very same rich capitalists that were known as ''Never Trumpers''

Yeah Trump really stuck it to them with . . . [checks notes] . . . slashing environmental regulations and large deficit-funded tax cuts.

 

[Gori the Grey]

And why do you think this is?

Well, one answer to this is . . . uh . . . patriarchy, duh.

And that's my answer whether your question was "why do the kinds of voices needed to contest Trump tend to be found in males?" or "why do you find that sad?"

Anyway, this discussion is all stemming from my admittedly idiosyncratic view that the challenger's policies will scarcely matter. (The successful candidate will have to have some policies, of course, and they should and will be different from Trump's policies). It's all style.

There are other stylistic points than voice--temperament especially; voice is just where I'm starting.

 

[Lexicus]

my admittedly idiosyncratic view that the challenger's policies will scarcely matter.

I'm not sure that is an idiosyncratic view at all. I have tried to concisely explain that I don't believe the candidates for President (or any office really) have some kind of spiritual substance that predetermines what they will work for in office. My position is that we work to elect people we think we will be responsive to our concerns and then when they take office the real work begins.

 

[HoloDoc]

89% of Australians live in the urban centres we are not very rural by nature
a true rural environment is found between the state capitals where you can drive for hours and find nothing but farmland
I live in Melbourne Australia pop about 3 million the state capital of Victoria
regional urban centre Ballarat pop 100,000
daughters farm near addington pop 71

I used to live in a town with 25 people. Anyone who lives somewhere that small does it because they want to, not because of employment opportunities. Usually for family reasons. Or they're banging someone, as in my case.

 

[danjuno]

I'm back, after an eternity. What's y'alls take on this Andrew Yang guy who's popping up in some 2020 articles?

 

[Old Hippy]

I used to live in a town with 25 people. Anyone who lives somewhere that small does it because they want to, not because of employment opportunities. Usually for family reasons. Or they're banging someone, as in my case.

Great for you.
Did you have a volunteer fire brigade, a volunteer st Johns ambulance because on a busy day there is no one left to make sandwiches for the state emergency services volunteers that came to town to fight the forest fires or staff the emergency evacuation points... if manufacturing comes back a dozen jobs at the local engineering firm servicing farm machinery could add two dozen adults to the town economy that could also mean the town has enough players to maintain a football team or keep the local school open
49 people is still a small town I don.t think many people would move out because of overcrowding... even you friend with benefits...