2020 US Election (Part One)

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Do I have evidence that the billionaire won't act against his own material interest? Yes. The behavior of pretty much every billionaire in the history of the world, and even of fake ones like the current president.

Trump was a proven liar long before he ran for office and there are plenty of billionaires who support higher taxes, so does this guy. Using Trump and guilt by association to accuse this man of lying is illogical.

But then, you probably also think that Trump is a noble anti-corruption champion, who is draining the swamp like he promised.

Trump didn't self finance and I've never called Trump honest or honorable, on the contrary. I can make my own arguments without you thinking for me.
 
I think Warren would end up a pragmatic leftist like Obama. I think Sanders would end up an ineffectual pie in the sky hopeful like Carter. Either is better than Trump, Warren is better than any Republican, Sanders I could be steered away from by a genuinely pragmatic Republican if there were any such left and they could somehow steal the nomination.
 
Oh, Republicans are certainly pragmatic, Tim.
 
Oh, Republicans are certainly pragmatic, Tim.

Not really. They have moved more into voter suppression and fantasizing about "silent majorities." By pragmatic I mean acknowledging that the lunatic fringe won't ever be sufficient, in itself, to win fair elections. Pragmatic Republicans have mostly been kicked out of the party.
 
I might also be biased because everyone in my union is constantly grumbling about how the Democrats are "going too far left" and many of them expressed enthusiasm about Bloomberg when I was on the campaign trail last year...

Labor in the US is truly a mystifying beast.
 
Oh, Republicans are certainly pragmatic, Tim.

There is a whole groups of former republicans who believe in climate science, evolution, and actual balanced budgets. They of course where RINOs because real republicans can no longer believe in reality.

Warren herself is a good example of this, I’m firmly in here camp. I still consider myself a capitalist but at this point in history we need some real changes to address climate change and to fix inequality before both of the combine to make for the worst sorts of revolutions. Just my opinion though and I’m probably not lucky enough to see our first “Native American” President take office.
 
Labor in the US is truly a mystifying beast.

We have a long history of democrats turning white labor against “the blacks”, “the Hispanics”, and “the gays”. So when republicans run in to fill that void some labor people are like “oh hey our group moved over there”. At least that’s what it feels like to me. Add that to the Islam defense and abortion issues labor families generally line up against and you can see why they drift to republicans. It’s totally against their self interest but it makes a sort of moral sense if you are semi racist and not able to filter the bull you hear from reality.
 
We have a long history of democrats turning white labor against “the blacks”, “the Hispanics”, and “the gays”. So when republicans run in to fill that void some labor people are like “oh hey our group moved over there”. At least that’s what it feels like to me. Add that to the Islam defense and abortion issues labor families generally line up against and you can see why they drift to republicans. It’s totally against their self interest but it makes a sort of moral sense if you are semi racist and not able to filter the bull you hear from reality.

Oh no, I'm not talking about that. Social conservatism is rather common among union blocs the world over. The strange thing to me about American labor is how consistently they'll publicly eschew an avowedly pro-labor/pro-union candidate in favor of one who is explicitly anti-union
 
Not really. They have moved more into voter suppression and fantasizing about "silent majorities." By pragmatic I mean acknowledging that the lunatic fringe won't ever be sufficient, in itself, to win fair elections. Pragmatic Republicans have mostly been kicked out of the party.
They are proceeding very rationally to carry out an irrationally selfish goal.
Labor in the US is truly a mystifying beast.
It's better to have that kind of organised labour than the one here which is essentially Al Capone to the max (a few days ago a notorious leader's home was raided and the police found over 130 small arms with the appropriate ammunition), but I'm not sure by how much.
There is a whole groups of former republicans who believe in climate science, evolution, and actual balanced budgets. They of course where RINOs because real republicans can no longer believe in reality.
At the risk of being asked to bite Farm Boy again I'll have to point out that this is a quite succint description of the current Republican Party.
 
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It's marketing. I've seen it on the occasional bumper sticker, but in a long life of meeting people and not being shy about sharing opinions and experiences I might be able to count the "proud union members" on one hand, and almost certainly on two. And among the grudgingly positive union members I've met I'd say that darn near all of them applied whatever positives they came up with to their union, not the idea itself. Unions have been so successfully painted as evil that even their members don't like them.
 
Oh no, I'm not talking about that. Social conservatism is rather common among union blocs the world over. The strange thing to me about American labor is how consistently they'll publicly eschew an avowedly pro-labor/pro-union candidate in favor of one who is explicitly anti-union

The Dems would do well to nominate senator of Ohio Sherrod Brown, he's got the best union/blue collar/ rust belt cred and he aint Joe Biden.
 
and there are plenty of billionaires who support higher taxes,

No there aren't. There are billionaires who pay lip service to the idea. They don't actually do anything to try to make it happen. That would threaten their power, of course they're not going to do that. Come on now, you can't be this gullible.

I think there are many more people out there like rah, @Gori the Grey and @metalhead.

Do we know if @rah has ever been an actual threat to vote for a Democrat for president?
 
Warren Buffett, Tom Steyers, Bloomberg (?) and this guy would support a tax hike. I dont know about Gates and Bezos. The Koch Bros probably not. I dont know many politically active billionaires but I suspect the ones who support the Democrats will back an increase and some in the center-right too.
 
The Democrats are centre-right.
 
At the risk of being asked to bite Farm Boy again I'll have to point out that this is a quite succing description of the current Republican Party.

Succing?
 

Well idk what a RINO is now, they were kicked out as apostates shortly after Trump was nominated. A lot of us left shortly after Obama was nominated and the Tea party path as becoming clear. I mean looking back on it now I should have known.
 
Well idk what a RINO is now, they were kicked out as apostates shortly after Trump was nominated. A lot of us left shortly after Obama was nominated and the Tea party path as becoming clear. I mean looking back on it now I should have known.

I got run out when I wouldn't support re-electing GWBush, and I wasn't alone. I wondered at the time how far they could get with "well, we don't even want your vote then!!!" I think D'ump is their last gasp.
 
I got run out when I wouldn't support re-electing GWBush, and I wasn't alone. I wondered at the time how far they could get with "well, we don't even want your vote then!!!" I think D'ump is their last gasp.
But how long is that last gasp going to last? If Trump wins in 2020 (I'm giving it 40% chance) the damage that will be done, notably to climate change, would basically be irreversible and likely catastrophic.
 
But how long is that last gasp going to last? If Trump wins in 2020 (I'm giving it 40% chance) the damage that will be done, notably to climate change, would basically be irreversible and likely catastrophic.
I don't know if you realize this, but you answer your own question in this post.

It'll last until our planet's last gasp.
 
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