2020 US Election (Part One)

[Rashiminos]

The parable of the vineyard also affirmed the idea that the employer had the right to pay as he willed, but I'm sure the charge of pay discrimination would never come up.

Kansas, et al, spending my tax dollars was a significant contributor to my decision to stop making taxable income. I don't think I'm a selfish monster, but eventually you have to let a few idiots drown if they collectively refuse to learn to swim.

I regret to inform you that we have something in common.

 

[Zkribbler]

Anyway, she is insane

Kamala isn't insane. She's just punching way above her weight.

 

[Berzerker]

Bernie isn't dropping out anytime soon. He would likely be the last one to drop out of the race, regardless of his poll numbers, because even if he started fading in the polls, his loyal following gives him a decent polling floor which will keep him in all the debates.

Biden's biggest strength is the perception that he is the frontrunner and the inevitable nominee. At the foundation of his support is that feeling that he's the only choice. As that crumbles there will be no getting it back because there's nothing else behind it. He doesn't have a loyal following like Bernie or Warren and he has no shiny new excitement factor like any of the other candidates. People just support him because he seems like the correct one to support... but that is going away... and that right soon.

I'm talking about the primaries, Bernie stayed in against Hillary and that pissed off a lot of people. I dont see him (or anyone else) doing that again.

This. Also, an established, generic, "moderate" Democrat is not winning this thing and will lose for the same reason Hillary did.

Hillary ran on "a progressive platform", but her actual experience in politics is that of a conservative democrat. Then she chose a running mate who is even more conservative than she is.

Of course, the Bernie or bust/progressives didn't buy it at all which is why some of them didn't vote and some even voted for Trump just to spite her.

You cannot appeal to "moderate Republicans and independents" who were always going to hate you no matter what you were going to do. You cannot isolate your progressive base while taking their votes completely for granted. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have the best chance to win for this reason.

It would be a mistake to think a moderate or centrist Democrat would suffer the same fate as Hillary (and she did win the popular vote). She had serious baggage (Iraq) and lost to Obama who was also a moderate centrist without that baggage. Obama may have been slightly to her left but not so far he couldn't compete for the center. Btw, McCain voted to invade Iraq too so Obama had that advantage on both of his opponents in 2008. The pendulum was swinging against the war.

Unfortunately for Biden he's carrying that baggage too. Maybe we'll find out if time has healed that wound, but Trump gets to rip away at his Iraq scabs. The Dems just need a moderate centrist who didn't vote on the war to take away that advantage.

 

[Berzerker]

Huh? You just said:
Now apparently you're fine with it all of a sudden because it suits your argument. You contradict yourself more often than Yahweh. Either you just make up your positions as you go along to be as self-serving as possible... Or you are literally so hypocritical and steeped in cognitive dissonance that you genuinely can't perceive the contradictions you constantly make... I still can't figure out which... maybe its both.

It was a joke, you couldn't figure that out either? And giving me his money is not reparations or taking money from the 'innocent', his goal was to stimulate the economy by handing out money to spend. Jesus Sommers, why am I not surprised to see who liked your post. Both of you try so hard to score points you just stop thinking logically. Hate kills brain cells.

Kansans spend my tax dollars every day and I'm happy for it. I don't mind paying for roads and schools and hospitals in backward states even as the occupants of said states continue to scoff at me and mine as if they didn't gorge on a disproportionate amount of the tax take because I'm not a selfish monster.

Selfish monster? Get a grip, it was a joke. I'm not getting your damn tax dollars, I've paid far more in taxes than I'll ever get back. For all the mocking and insults you guys disgorge you sure come off as humorless.

@Timsup2nothin -
And I probably came off as holier than thou there when I didn't mean it that way.

Lol. What is your job again? I thought you worked on something that relies on taxes.

I am thinking about muting Fox news entirely on my news feeds. I keep it because I don't want to live in a complete bubble but they have absolutely stepped up their propaganda efforts to the point where I can't escape it even when casually browsing headlines.

I spent years watching MSNBC and I recently watched a couple episodes of Tucker. The main difference other than ideology is Fox invites people on who disagree, MSNBC is an echo chamber.

Nah. You were spot on. It's easy to put things in terms of selfish monsters when talking about the red states.

I dont vote for people who like to 'redistribute' other people's money, you guys do that. Is Detective Sommers still on the trail of hypocrisy?

Kansas, et al, spending my tax dollars was a significant contributor to my decision to stop making taxable income. I don't think I'm a selfish monster, but eventually you have to let a few idiots drown if they collectively refuse to learn to swim.

Did he strike a nerve? So maybe I pay more in taxes than you, sure looks like you're free riding on other people. There ya go Sommers, the trail is fresh.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I think Americans place too much emphasis on history when it comes to elections. Who cares who voted for the Iraq war? Lots of people did, that's why you wound up in it.

 

[Berzerker]

I think Americans place too much emphasis on history when it comes to elections. Who cares who voted for the Iraq war? Lots of people did, that's why you wound up in it.

Bush won re-election in '04 before 'we' figured out it was all a scam, since then every pro-Iraq War nominee has lost (albeit thats just 2, maybe thats 3 with Romney) . Biden might be able to break that pattern given Trump's performance but I think the Dems would do themselves (and the rest of us) a favor by going with someone who didn't vote for that war.

 

[Zardnaar]

They would rather fight among themselves is a big problem.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...1a79c2551bf_story.html?utm_term=.56c760ea458b

I blame the far left more, the path back to the presidency and Senate is in the mid west and purple states, not California and New York.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Bush won re-election in '04 before 'we' figured out it was all a scam, since then every pro-Iraq War nominee has lost (albeit thats just 2) . Biden might be able to break that pattern given Trump's performance but I think the Dems would do themselves (and the rest of us) a favor by going with someone who didn't vote for that war.

So, basically, you're holding most of Congress and most of the Senate hostage for voting for a war that they were tricked into supporting by false "intelligence"?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It is criminally negligent for someone in a position like senator not to know enough about the middle east to realize that the war was a terrible idea despite whatever shoddy evidence the intelligence community presented. They had a duty to question the evidence and declare war only if there was solid proof that Saddam was an imminent threat to the USA, not to empower an executive to make the decision that legally belongs with the Senate itself.

 

[Farm Boy]

Christianity was a faith designed to help a conquered people make peace with their place in the world. It later morphed into a faith that could include rulers, but it was never designed to be in charge. Talking about government and Christianity will always lead to disagreement, it's like trying to divide by zero and then arguing about what type of infinity it is. It just doesn't work, and people shoe-horn in their biases.

Oh come off it. Design my ass. None of the premises change because one has power. None of them are influenced by the measure of power people can enjoy and be people. But yes, people get shittier about the premises the more power they have. The wealthy give objectively less because they are relatively garbage humans. Power does that by the beautiful light of the morning star.

 

[Rashiminos]

I think Americans place too much emphasis on history when it comes to elections. Who cares who voted for the Iraq war? Lots of people did, that's why you wound up in it.

The Iraq War is a bit too recent for historical emphasis, by American standards.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

It is criminally negligent for someone in a position like senator not to know enough about the middle east to realize that the war was a terrible idea despite whatever shoddy evidence the intelligence community presented. They had a duty to question the evidence and declare war only if there was solid proof that Saddam was an imminent threat to the USA, not to empower an executive to make the decision that legally belongs with the Senate itself.

Yes, but if your supposedly accurate intelligence is all based on a lie, and the intelligence community is perpetuating that lie, you can effectively find yourself hoodwinked, despite your best intentions.

The Iraq War is a bit too recent for historical emphasis, by American standards.

You've basically made my point here.

 

[Rashiminos]

*chuckling*

All I can say to that, is good luck on your side of the pond. May you never need to see our side of this issue.

 

[Berzerker]

So, basically, you're holding most of Congress and most of the Senate hostage for voting for a war that they were tricked into supporting by false "intelligence"?

A majority of the Democrats in the House and a large minority in the Senate voted against the war. It doesn't matter if I hold anyone responsible, the Democrats held Hillary responsible and thats Biden's biggest weakness. The people at 10 Downing St knew the fix was in for war, so did Congress. Lex linked an article about how Biden held one sided 'hearings' designed to justify the war, members of Congress understood what they were up against if they opposed it. They weren't tricked, we were tricked. Well, it took a year or more of propaganda from people like Bush, Cheney, Biden and Hillary to get enough people on their side and then anti-Iraq War Obama hired Biden and Hillary.

 

[Narz]

This is the flaw in your argument. Hillary Clinton couldn't appeal to moderate Republicans and independents because they have been trained to hate her for a full generation, or longer. That made Hillary a bad choice, and in truth only the GOP fielding a complete dingbat kept her from getting totally blown out. But that doesn't change the reality that no Democrat can win without appealing to moderate Republicans and independents...that's just math.

The GOP will have a much harder time sticking the opponent with "but socialist" or "but progressive" than they had sticking her with "but Hillary." That doesn't mean the Democrat can afford to make it easy for them.

Hillary was unlikable. As are Biden & Harris.

That's why I like Andrew Yang, how could anyone muster hate for this guy?

 

[El_Machinae]

Oh come off it. Design my ass. None of the premises change because one has power. None of them are influenced by the measure of power people can enjoy and be people. But yes, people get ****tier about the premises the more power they have. The wealthy give objectively less because they are relatively garbage humans. Power does that by the beautiful light of the morning star.

Naw, you're wrong. Christianity is not designed to hold power. It was built when Christians were oppressed, and then perverted in order to allow people to hold power. The faith is built around having a secular oppressor, not holding the power.

 

[Farm Boy]

There is no power to hold in the face of Christianity. But w/e. Carry on with what you want out of somebody else's faith.

 

[Berzerker]

Naw, you're wrong. Christianity is not designed to hold power. It was built when Christians were oppressed, and then perverted in order to allow people to hold power. The faith is built around having a secular oppressor, not holding the power.

Maybe I'm wrong but wasn't there effectively a Christian civil war when Constantine dangled power before the Christians?

 

[Takhisis]

Naw, you're wrong. Christianity is not designed to hold power. It was built when Christians were oppressed, and then perverted in order to allow people to hold power. The faith is built around having a secular oppressor, not holding the power.

Something makes me think that you are not a Christian.

 

[Zkribbler]

It is criminally negligent for someone in a position like senator not to know enough about the middle east to realize that the war was a terrible idea despite whatever shoddy evidence the intelligence community presented. They had a duty to question the evidence and declare war only if there was solid proof that Saddam was an imminent threat to the USA, not to empower an executive to make the decision that legally belongs with the Senate itself.

Bah, they knew exactly what was going on. Their problem was that 80% of Americans were demanding war, and politicians lacked the spine to do what they knew was right.