April 2021 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[Mtgkuvalda]

The chateau has become better in terms of placement, now it is quite possible to make successful combinations with wonder in a variety of places. But I have been struck for 5 years by the fear with which developers approach this improvement. This is the renaissance, why is there so little culture, when for example chemamul or paridaeza give it more and earlier? This is actually France, it should shine the brightest in terms of culture! From a balance point of view, I would have put the Chateau earlier, in the castles, where it belongs. And also gave protection as a fort.

 

[Gedemon]

reading all of these thoughts, I do kind of feel for the Firaxis people for balancing the game. There are just so many different audiences for Civ:

• multiplayer audience that is conditioned to DOTA-style competitive balance
• modders
• single player audience who have a completely different idea of competitive balance from the multiplayer people
• theme/fluff concerned audience
• people who specifically want 6 to be more like another game (Civ 4 or CK2)

And the intersection of these audiences ofc.

It's only if we could mod the game to everyone taste and didn't use the opportunity to do so that I'd feel sorry for them.

On TSL Huge Earth Map, they won't have a problem.

except the size of the island maybe...

 

[seancolorado]

is anyone else not having Owls of Minerva all of a sudden not show up as a secret society after many attempts at triggering it?

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

i just saw a video that you can pet the dog of the scout now , best patch ever!!!!!!!!

 

[McKeu]

i just saw a video that you can pet the dog of the scout now , best patch ever!!!!!!!!

Sadly it doesn't work, if you have the cats active :|
It will give you "One does not simply pet a cat."

On a side note: I just started a game as Canada and, boy, are those Tundra boni ridiculous.

Edit: And they increased the amount of horseback barbarians? Please no. It's already ridiculous to run into two horsemen and one horseback archer at turn 20 on marathon, besieging your city.
And then, a hundred years later, you get the points for fielding a cavalry for the first time in history. Makes no sense.

 

[Victoria]

Having played a couple of games now I feel the AI seems to not expand as much nor be as aggressive.

Also, from its inception VI put out a civ a bit OP then reigned it in most of the time. Now it feels the buffing of many civs are turning them all into superheroes where special abilities are like superpowers.

I guess that’s a choice of approach by Firaxis, after all, many iterations had little difference between civs but I feel it has tipped a little too far, perhaps down to lobbying. Just a shame we seem to be coming to the final iteration with such a radical change.

 

[nzcamel]

I don't think Scotland is terribly underpowered. It just turns out to be a really boring, passive buff. And golf.

The best buff to Scotland would be making the golf course not absolutely hideous.

Agreed. Scotland's problem isn't necessarily power. It's the fact that the Leader Ability is not useable very often, the Civ Ability is very under the hood, the unique improvement is only 1 per city (and kind of lame, thematically), and the UU is a unit type that players usually don't use heavily at the time it comes available. It's just not a fun civ.

Yet I love playing as them for all of the reasons stated here

 

[fantsu]

It's only if we could mod the game to everyone taste and didn't use the opportunity to do so that I'd feel sorry for them.

Maybe Firaxis will add support for mods in civ7 for all platforms. We will see. This time game modes would have done it, with some work of course.

 

[TCBB]

Moderator Action: If you have a problem with the post please report it rather than responding, thanks --NZ
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[kotpeter]

I really liked that, finally tourism has some use outside of cultural victory. But still, this comes too late to have any practical effect.

To make this more useful, if your culture is 50% influential on a civ, you get extra gold, science and culture on trade routes for that civ, in addition to more successful espionage activities. If your culture is 100% influential (dominant), you get even more gold, science and culture on trade routes to that civ, more successful espionage activities, more pressure on loyalty, and that civ that has its dominated culture loses 1 amenity in all cities.
Maybe extra diplomatic favors and points of influence for each civ that your culture is dominant would be cool.

There's one hidden gem here. With proper setup and promotions, your spies will now be able to diminish spaceports and industrial zones in 1 turn. Which it makes it very hard for your opponent to pursue science victory.

 

[Banazir864]

Sadly it doesn't work, if you have the cats active :|
It will give you "One does not simply pet a cat.”

Does anyone else think this is a deliberate Sean Bean reference (i.e. the Boromir meme)?

Also, while we’ll probably never know for sure, I tend to feel like the “Pet Dog” action was more a case of “Hey guys, I was bored over the weekend so look what I did.” “Haha, that’s great! Let’s add it to the game.” rather than anything they deliberately spent development time on.

 

[McKeu]

Does anyone else think this is a deliberate Sean Bean reference (i.e. the Boromir meme)?

Also, while we’ll probably never know for sure, I tend to feel like the “Pet Dog” action was more a case of “Hey guys, I was bored over the weekend so look what I did.” “Haha, that’s great! Let’s add it to the game.” rather than anything they deliberately spent development time on.

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Mtgkuvalda]

The Ranger clearly doesn't match the difficulty of getting to his technology. In my opinion, the best solution would be to recognize the rifle technology as untenable, eliminate it and replace it with Refining. After all, oil production began in the industrial era! Battleship is then transferred to steel, and ranger to military science. It also solves the problems of oil by opening up access to it earlier. Indirectly, this helps the Highlander of Scotland.

In general, I like the golf course, but the civic for it is extremely unsuitable for this nation. Here, either coordinate it (+1 culture for each adjacent district and +1 amenity for each adjacent untreated cell - combined with national parks), or transfer it to the technological tree. In siege tactics, for example, which would allow Scotland to consistently get 4 golden age points two eras in a row.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Maybe Firaxis will add support for mods in civ7 for all platforms.

It's not up to Firaxis, most of the Console makers don't support Mods as I understand it.

 

[McKeu]

It's not up to Firaxis, most of the Console makers don't support Mods as I understand it.

That is true. I worked for a major game developer/publisher, and every patch or feature you add has to go through them (Sony/Microsoft) first, resulting in a lot of trouble, dev & QA time wasted, etc. PC is the only platform where all that is unnecessary.
Opening up modding on those platforms also takes away the control of content from those entities. You could add sexual content mods, which would be available on PS platform, etc. Sony would neither agree to that, nor have time to hand check each mod out there. So in order to prevent that from happening, they simply shut the doors categorically.

 

[nzcamel]

According to my list only 10 of the 50 civs weren't altered at all:-

No specific changes to:
** Babylon
** Brazil
** Cree
** Egypt
** Gran Colombia
** Indonesia
** Phoenicia
** Portugal
** Scotland
** Sweden

It's a bit ugly but here's what I have for each civ - as expected it ranges from incredibly minor to major rework:-

Spoiler List of changes per Civ :

Civ    Changes
America    Rough Rider: Replaces the Cuirassier. Upgrades to Tank (was Modern Armor). Prerequisite tech is now Ballistics (was Rifling).
Arabia    Mamluk: Combat Strength increased to 50 (was 48). Upgrades to the Cuirassier (was Tank).
Australia:    - Stronger coastal start bias; Digger: Combat Strength increased to 78 (was 72).
Aztecs:    - culture from the Tlatchtli.
Byzantium    Tagma: Combat Strength increased to 50 (was 48).
Canada:    - Mines and Lumber Mills in Snow/Tundra now provide +2 Production rather than +1;  Camps and Farms in Snow/Tundra now provide +2 Food; Mounties receive an additional build charge for National Parks.
China:    Eureka and Inspiration when completing a World Wonder; UU cost reduced
Dutch    Radio Oranje: Domestic Trade Routes provide +2 Loyalty (was +1) per turn for the starting city. Trade Routes sent or receive from a foreign civilization grant +2 Culture (was +1) to the Netherlands.
England:    Redcoat: Combat Strength increased to 70 (was 65); Sea Dog: Ranged Combat Strength increased to 55 (was 50).
Ethiopia    Oromo Cavalry: Combat Strength increased to 48 (was 46).
France:    - The Garde Imperiale now replaces the Line Infantry.  Changes to UI
Gaul    UU upgrades into Man-at-arms
Georgia:    - Faith bonus from Protectorate Wars removed; Instead, combat victories now provide faith equal to 50% og the defeated unit's combat strength.; UU replaces man at arms and is stronger
Germany    U-Boat does not require oil; Tier 5 river start bias
Greece:    - Hoplite gains +3 combat strength; - (Gorgo) +1 combat strength for every military policy card in current government
Hungary    Black Army: Combat Strength increased to 49 (was 47).
Inca    Qhapaq Ñan (leader ability): Added +1 additional Production to Mountains when the game reaches the Industrial Era; [Gathering Storm] Inca Terrace Farm: Now gives +1 Housing (was +0.5); [Gathering Storm] Mountains (non-Tundra/Snow) are now a Tier 2 start bias.
India:    - Varu now upgrades into Cuirassier rather than Tank
Japan:    - The Samurai now replaces the Man-at-Arms and is available at Feudalism. Japan also now gets a Tier 3 start bias towards Coast.
Khmer:    Major changes
Kongo:    - No longer receives additional Great Writer points; - Relics, Sculptures and Artifacts now provide +1 faith.; UU upgrades into Man-at-arms and is stronger
Korea:    - Bonuses for mines/farms adjacent to Seowons now stack with each adjacent Seowon
Macedon    UU upgrades into Man-at-arms and is stronger
Mali    Mandekalu Cavalry: Combat Strength increased to 55 (was 49).
Maori    UU upgrades into Man-at-arms and is stronger
Mapuche:    Major changes
Maya:    - Farms get +1 production for each adjacent observatory;  Maya start bias adjusted to provide more hills; - Non-capital cities settled within 6 tiles of capital get free builder
Mongolia    Ordu: Now gives XP to Siege units; Keshig: Melee/Ranged Combat Strength increased to 35/45 (was 30/40). Costs 160 Production (was 180).
Norway:    - Berserker now replaces Man-at-Arms;  Combat Strength increased to 48 (was 40). -5 Combat Strength when defending penalty now only applies to melee attacks.
Nubia:    - Production bonus for ranged units reduced from +50% to +33%; - Nubian Pyramid now provides +2 food, +2 faith
Ottomans:    UU upgrades into Line Infranty; Grand Vizier: Added +1 Governor Title when Gunpowder Technology is unlocked.  [Gathering Storm] Niter is now a Tier 5 start bias.
Persia    UU upgrades into Man-at-arms and is stronger; reduction in Appeal bonus from UI
Poland:    - Jadwiga's abilities now function regardless of whether she has founded a religion; her cities just have to have majority religions; - Winged Hussar now replaces the Cuirassier, with stats adjusted to match
Rome    UU upgrades into Man-at-arms
Russia:    - Cities now receive 5 extra starting tiles rather than 8; - Bonus Great People points from Lavras now require religious buildings (Shrine for writer, Temple for Artist, Worship Building for Musician)
Scythia:    - Kurgan provides more gold, faith output increased by adjacent pastures and Stirrups, provides tourism with Flight;  Saka Horse Archer melee CS increased by 5
Spain:    Major changes
Sumeria:    - Gilgamesh now also provides +5 combat strength to allies when at war with a common foe, stacks with military alliances
Vietnam    Thành: No longer provides a Great General point.
Zulu:    - Buildings in the Ikanda now provide +2 Gold and +1 Science;  Impi now 45 CS

Thank you, this is easier to compare the Civs than than the patch note structure!

 

[Linklite]

is anyone else not having Owls of Minerva all of a sudden not show up as a secret society after many attempts at triggering it?

I had a problem getting Voidsingers last night. I usually get them within a few turns, but it took ages thus time. I don't know if it was just me getting unlucky with the RNG, though.

 

[fantsu]

It's not up to Firaxis, most of the Console makers don't support Mods as I understand it.

It depends how it is done.
For example Minecraft mods work on consoles with dedicated marketplace for them where players can download user created add-ons. Sure something like this might be too much for small company like Firaxis to implement in their game. And I dont think they are much interested in multiplayer either because playing with mods cross platform would require every player having the exact same mods installed to make the game fair for everyone.

 

[comatosedragon]

• Fixed an issue where bonus resources would not be removed from a tile after a district is built on it.

Wow. I am very surprised that there is not a 10 page thread about this change already. This seems like the biggest change to me, although I have not played a game with the patch yet.

 

[Myomoto]

I am mainly excited to see them address the fact that tourism did nothing besides the CV, but I would have liked to see tourism effects start even earlier than full cultural domination.

The individual balance between different Civs I personally do not care that much about. I play Civ as a single player experience - imbalance of Civs just becomes another way for me to control the difficulty of the game. What I do care about is whether or not individual Civs have interesting mechanics for me to play with/against.