Awareness of racial slurs outside of the US

[luiz]

There is obviously no difference between whites, Chinese or Philippinos in this regard. I probably should have made that clearer. I just said whites because the argument was originally about them (and Valka, who is also white).

Either they're first and original inhabitants, or, as I said, there's no-one left to resent them for displacing them, so they have the best existing claim.
However, that's exactly my point - there is not much point to it. It can be used as a neutral, descriptive term that applies to almost everyone.
If someone uses this in a way that implies one is responsible for the actions of their distant forefathers, it becomes a slur.

At least in Brazil, many of the Indians displaced by other Indians still exist. But rather ironically, on some cases they had to be told by "white" researchers that they were displaced by other Indians, because their lack of writing means all they were left with were some vague legends. But the archeological and linguistic evidence is clear: the Tupis who inhabited the eastern coast when the Portuguese arrived came from the Amazon, while several tribes who then inhabited the backlands were originally from the coast, and were kicked out by the more advanced Tupi peoples. Some of the last remnants of pre-Tupi Indians were indeed still being kicked out when the Portuguese arrived. So from the POV of Indians the portuguese were just yet another warring tribe, tough bizarre looking and magic-wielding.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Indeed. Although peoples who first arrived to the Americas or Australia didn't displace anyone else.

Granted, there was nobody for the first arrivals to displace, but they still colonized North and South America.

So the more correct term for this first wave of people who came over the land bridge 14,000+ years ago would be "colonists" rather than "colonizers."

Think of it as Mars or the Moon, or even an L-5 habitat, when humans finally get off this planet. We'll be setting up colonies, and there's no life on the Moon and as far as we presently know, there's no native life on Mars. No displacement, for the first wave.

It's when the second wave comes that things have the potential to go wrong.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Think of it as Mars or the Moon, or even an L-5 habitat, when humans finally get off this planet. We'll be setting up colonies, and there's no life on the Moon and as far as we presently know, there's no native life on Mars. No displacement, for the first wave.

It's when the second wave comes that things have the potential to go wrong.

That's when you get this.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I wasn't thinking of any science fiction scenarios, much as I'd like Ben Bova's novels to be real (in certain aspects, since the greenhouse cliff and New Morality would make Earth a living hell for anyone not rich enough to get away from both of these).

 

[Manfred Belheim]

For starters stop complaining when you get called a colonizer. You are living on colonized land, and you are a member of the colonizer socioeconomic class as a white person. Chill out anyway. It’s not like being called a colonizer has any real effect on you, the term is backed by no power at all— because colonialism is still solidly in progress in Canada. It’s like if a POC called you a racist, would you say that it’s a slur against white people?

Of course you could never call one of the native American black people a coloniser. But then you can't call them racist either can you. I'm sure it all makes sense though.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I did answer your question, in fact you literally quoted my answer in this very post. Chill out about non-white people disliking you because you are a member of a colonial population, and because it has basically no real material affect on you. I guess it hurts your feelings. Sorry. That doesn’t make colonizer a racial slur.

Lol. "Let the racist people hate you and stop moaning about it". Confirmed as alt-right.

 

[Ryika]

Is a person whose ancestors did not take part in the initial colonization efforts, but instead moved to Canada long after the new Canadian society already existed, rightfully called a colonizer?

And if so, is it not the right decision then, to close the Canadian borders to all immigration, to prevent further colonization efforts?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Is a person whose ancestors did not take part in the initial colonization efforts, but instead moved to Canada long after the new Canadian society already existed, rightfully called a colonizer?

If they have white skin. And it's also okay to hate them because of the colour of their skin. It's the progressive way.

 

[Ryika]

But it's not limited to white people. He said that what is important is that you're part of the colonizer socioeconomic class, and while his opinion is that every white person in Canada automatically fits into that class, literally any immigrant would as well, by the same logic. A black person who is able to immigrate to Canada would for example not score as highly in the progressive stack, but they would clearly fit that definition.

Even a refugee who is allowed to immigrate and stay in Canada would fit that description, as he immigrates, and becomes part of, the colonizer society. He would probably integrate at the bottom of that society, but he no doubt integrates into th colonizer society and is thus part of the colonizer socioeconomic class, because he is then living on colonized land.

 

[Hehehe]

Chill out about non-white people disliking you because you are a member of a colonial population

I'm just throwing this out there as a thought. Colonialism is a complex phenomenon, and it is debatable if the descendants deserve any blame for the supposed crimes of their ancestors. But if they do, do they also deserve credit for the achievements of their ancestors? I mean think about it. Almost everything you have, you have because white people invented it. Before the industrial revolution, on average people's GDP per capita was about 500$. Anything above that, you can thank "colonizers" for it. Any technology, such as the piece of equipment you're using to write your messages, you can thank colonizers for it. If you're living in a first world society, you can thank colonizers for it. Colonialism has been retroactively painted as pure exploitation. Reality is a bit more complex than that. Colonialism was also about the white man's burden, that is, civilizing the savages. In the Islamic world, colonizers ended slavery. In Africa, colonizers brought technology and civilization to the continent. I mean I'm just saying, if you're going to blame colonizers for the supposed crimes of their ancestors, surely you will also acknowledge the good things? Does the word "colonizer" really even carry any negative connotations?

 

[Synobun]

We made it a few pages before delving right into blatant racism. We're getting better at this!

 

[Broken_Erika]

If they have white skin. And it's also okay to hate them because of the colour of their skin. It's the progressive way.

Everybody knows; Only white people can be racist. Non-whites just have a strong opinion about lighter-toned individuals.

 

[Lexicus]

People who unironically call people colonizers are just a little too into postcolonial theory, they're not racist.

 

[luiz]

People who unironically call people colonizers are just a little too into postcolonial theory, they're not racist.

Idiots is a better description than racists, agreed.

 

[Lexicus]

Idiots is a better description than racists, agreed.

They're by and large not idiots. Most people I've seen who say stuff like that are bright but young. They'll grow out of it. And the ones who don't generally end up becoming cultist weirdos like Bob Avakian, and it's a total waste of time to worry one's head about Bob Avakian.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

In Africa, colonizers brought technology and civilization to the continent.

Technology that was more complex than what the people already there were using, yes.

Civilization? There were sophisticated civilizations in parts of Africa thousands of years before any European decided, "Hey, that's good real estate, let's go take it!".

Part of the reason we know how the ancient Egyptians thought of, and treated, foreigners is because they recorded it. The images in the temples and stele and palaces and tombs weren't just pretty pictures. They are the history and the proclamations and the thoughts of the time in which they were created. It took knowledge of mathematics and physics to create their civilization, and some non-Egyptians in their jealousy and spite decided that there had to be divine intervention that made it possible. Modern close-minded people insist it had to be space aliens, because no human could ever have constructed such things...

Those who can be termed "colonizers" in Africa - the Europeans, in particular, brought different technology and different variety of civilization, but it's incorrect to say there was none there to begin with.

 

[Traitorfish]

For starters stop complaining when you get called a colonizer. You are living on colonized land, and you are a member of the colonizer socioeconomic class as a white person.

Would it appease my detractors if I admit that I don't know what this means?

 

[Berzerker]

It took knowledge of mathematics and physics to create their civilization, and some non-Egyptians in their jealousy and spite decided that there had to be divine intervention that made it possible. Modern close-minded people insist it had to be space aliens, because no human could ever have constructed such things...

who did the Egyptians credit with their civilization?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

who did the Egyptians credit with their civilization?

Themselves, presumably. After all, they built the buildings and other monuments, they carved and inscribed the images and writing, for the benefit of current and future generations.

Yes, I'm aware that some of what they built was for the purpose of glorifying their gods. But since we're talking about colonialism and racism in this thread rather than Chariots of the Gods nonsense, let's not even go there.

 

[Berzerker]

You brought it up to insult people... And the Egyptians credited their gods as the culture bearers, eg Thoth and Ptah... Now you accuse people of being close minded for accepting what they said?

edit: actually, people all over the world credit their gods with teaching them culture, etc...